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  msaleem

  Sept. 15, 2006, 9:17 a.m.

  Hmm, I was watching tv this morning and I caught the end of some news report saying that the pope was praised for promoting religious unity.

  I grossly misunderstood.
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  NSWritie

  Sept. 15, 2006, 9:58 a.m.

  It's a pretty remarkable gaffe on the Pope's part. What was he thinking of? In the current situation, how can a world leader quote a 14th century slander at such an important event and then bleat, "I'm trying to promote religious unity". I think the Catholic church has made significant efforts over the past few years. But this one stupid out-of-context remark deflates the whole operation. I read his speech. The quote in question is entirely irrelevant to his point, and is probably the only reference to Islam. I would have thought there were more important things to debate than the thoughts of a 14th century cleric.

  Very disappointing.
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 10:48 a.m.

  To some extent the Pope was correct. The concept of jihad and the practice of forced conversion is unacceptable in today's world, where we value freedom of choice and self-determination.

  It might have seemed less "offensive" had the Pope recognized that the Catholic Church and other self-described "Christians" had themselves initiated Holy Wars and practiced forced conversion. But it is still likely that the same professional complainers against the West would have expressed their resentment.

  I think it is remarkable that the press allows Muslims to define the conflict between cultures in terms of the Pope's comments, or in respect to some cartoons published in relatively uninfluential Danish newspapers, and does not seek to force them to address the REAL ISSUES which divide us.
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 10:51 a.m.

  BTW, the comparison of the Pope's remarks to those of Hitler and Mussolini represents an escalation of the rhetoric by deputy leader Kapusuz, yet no one seems willing to call him to task for his "offensive" remarks. The double standard survives, and the reluctance of the western media to defend the societies which allow it the freedom to exist goes on.
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  ben-fowdha

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:06 a.m.

  Pope Benedict is the ANTI-Pope to John Paul II. He is the ultimate Nazi in a new hat.
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  amerettoice

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:11 a.m.

  ohhh here we go again..... even mention something questionable about islam and the towl-heads go bizerk...face it.. they preach death.. they embrace hatetred, they adore carnal desires.. (after all death to muslim men means unadultrated sex for ever)..annnd...how do their women fair? oppressed, degraded, mutilated and treated as less than less

  What has islam given the world? War and death...It was true then and .. well look how things are today.... 9/11. the talliban, Husien, Indiscrininate car bombings (worldwide).. killing women and children in marketplaces and mosques... torcher and killing their own for what??? What possible good can be obtained by destroying innocence??

  Even their own clerics have stated that they (islam) embraces death while the rest of the world embraced life... I think a great deception is being played out by the greatest deceiver of all, and we all know who that is....
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  QueensBishop

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:13 a.m.

  I think it is absolutely ridiculous that the Pope is now likened to that of Hitler and Mousollini (sorry bout the spelling)!!!! For reading text that he didn't write, preceding it each time with 'I QUOTE' Especially since, It's true!! Look it up in any historical documents...Islam, like Christianity in their early stages, were spread at the tip of a sword.. The only difference is that Jesus himself (whether he existed in the same context that the bible presents him) didn't take up the sword himself. Whereas Mohammed did.. He led his followers across the Arabic world, converting by the sword.

  And for a whole country (Pakistan) to adopt a resolution condemning the Pontiff! Yeah, because it's our lack of understanding about the origins of islam that divides the world today!! Yeah, that's it!!!

  Sometimes I wish I had a really big hand that could slap some sense into an entire country..

  Don't worry, i would use it against many a western nation as well!!!

  That is all...............
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  ben-fowdha

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:15 a.m.

  It is the ignorant, self serving agenda of the West to speak of 'forced conversion' in Islam. In the same breath, these people voice concern for Copts, Christian Arabs, Yemeni Jews....etc. Don't they see the ambiguity? Why are most of Israeli Jews from Arab or Muslim countries if they were all forced to convert? How did Danny Thomas' family EVER make it to the US to form the St. Jude Society?

  Were these people Muslims who became Christians or Jews when they left their homelands? NO!!!! They, and their families were free to follow their religions for centuries. Only in Europe and the Americas were people FORCED to give up ancestral religions for Christianity.
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  Bobola

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:37 a.m.

  There are some benefits in repeating the obvious. Mahometanism have a doubtful quality as religious teachings. Anything good in Koran was already well known and borrowed by Mahomet from the Old and New Testament. What new he brought was the odioius and harmful directive of forceful conversion of giaurs (unbelivers) and dangerous program of conquest of non-islamic world. Mahometanism is the only religion that advocates murdering other human beings as a sure way to salvation and duty of the faithful (see Koran 9, 29-30, 38-39, 41, 44-45).
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  esmith4145

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:39 a.m.

  I'm not sure what the Turks are complaining about, It sounds to me like the Pope nailed the current situation in Islam. Sure 500 years ago everyone practiced that mentality but today only Islam seems to embrace it. The only difference is, today they seem a lot more likely to murder you than try to convert you.
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:40 a.m.

  It appears that Mr. Ben Fowdha finds justifications for the wrongs perpetrated today in the wrongs perpetrated by others in the past. This is intellectually dishonest and morally reprehensible.

  Nothing in history, not the Crusades, not the Muslim conquests of Christian Spain, not the destruction of the (Christian) Byzantine Empire, can justify twenty-first century clerics who preach hatred and destruction--whether those clerics be Muslim or Christian or Jewish. The attitude that any people are entitled to take "revenge" for the perceived misdeeds of centuries past is one of the most pernicious and destructive attitudes loose in the world today.

  Mr. Ben Fowdha is not above bending the facts a bit, either. Most Israelis are not Sephardim, they are Ashkenazim, and have come to Israel from Eastern Europe. In fact, there has been a huge influx since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:50 a.m.

  Christians and Jews were historically tolerated in Islamic countries, but that does not mean that they were not treated badly--they just weren't murdered. Mohammed recognized them as "people of the Book," to whom Allah had revealed part of the truth, but not the whole truth, and thus they were deserving of some respect. In practice, they got very little. They were prohibited from many professions and they were not allowed to hold public offices. In some Muslim nations they could not even own land, a significant prohibition in societies that were primarily agricultural and pastoral. They could not display signs of their faith publicly, nor engage in public worship. They were also required to pay a special tax, which applied only to non-believers resident in Muslim nations. These restrictions effectively consigned most Christians and Jews to perpetual poverty.

  Life was no bed of roses for non-believers in Muslim lands.
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  The_Alienist

  Sept. 15, 2006, 11:58 a.m.

  >>...and the practice of forced conversion is unacceptable in today's world....>>

  Someone please explain this to George W. Bush.
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  The_Alienist

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:01 p.m.

  >>even mention something questionable about islam and the towl-heads go bizerk>>

  and if anyone says anything bad about Christianity they go "bizerk" too. Just look at the reaction to the movie "Saved."
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  The_Alienist

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:02 p.m.

  There is nothing wrong with defending ones religion against inaccuracies.
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  blksentra2

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:08 p.m.

  I smell a huge conflict brewing in this one...
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:13 p.m.

  I disagree, blksentra. I think that some members of the press will ride it for a few days until they get some real news to cover, but the Pope didn't say anything particularly offensive and any furor will quickly subside, to be remembered only by the half-educated and those inclined to seize upon any perceived "offense" as a legitimate excuse for hatred.
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  Eagle_Eye

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:40 p.m.

  Dalai Lama far more like Christ than the poop, oh I meant pope
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  1-2-Oscar

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:55 p.m.

  Eagle Eye,

  I do not understand just why you made that comment. Do you think that disparaging others makes you appear smarter, more forgiving, or more perceptive?
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  DoTheRightThing

  Sept. 15, 2006, 12:56 p.m.

  1-2-Oscar: You and Pope are no different first of all. West does not understand the true meaning of Jihad (Struggle for the goodness of lives(humans specifically) regardless of any profiling) as this has been further distorted by recent events.

  When you talk of the term "Jihad" please refer to some good source of knowledge base, because people start comnenting on this term without completely understanding the philosophy behind it.
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  Eagle_Eye

  Sept. 15, 2006, 1:04 p.m.

  123Oscar, no, I just think the whole Catholic thing is Rome's attempt to control the world still. And I have no faith in anyone who allows men that abuse little children to be just moved around. I was born into a strict Roman Catholic church and know how hypocritical they are!! This pope had the chance to excuminicate all pedophiles!!
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  QueensBishop

  Sept. 15, 2006, 1:14 p.m.

  Unfortunately, 'DoTheRightThing' I can't speak for everyone else, but the only time I have ever heard of the term 'Jihad' is out of the mouth(s) of those such as Bin Laden, and the U.K imprisoned muslim cleric Abu Hamza...And from both of them, the term seems to me to mean 'Holy War' against all non-muslims; in the West at least. So, unless there is a completely different meaning to the term that you are aware of, then please.....share it with me..
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  QueensBishop

  Sept. 15, 2006, 1:22 p.m.

  I read all the time on these postings and bulletin boards that we in the West do not know anything about Islam, and that we are buying into the media hype, and perpetuated ignorance about this religion.

  We here one muslim fundamentalist saying that there can be no law except Allahs law, and that the whole world must either convert or go to hell, and others who post bulletins that say Islam is the last great religion, perfect in everyway, but with no refuting of my former statement.

  So to me, that makes Islam, not similar, but Identical to Christianity, and/or Catholicism, which preach on one hand that they are a people of peace and love and respect, but on the other hand are blatantly intolerant of many aspects of society...Gay rights, Abortions etc...And all three saying the same thing...If you don't follow my god, you go live will Satan, Shatan, Beelzebub....

  please explain............
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  esmith4145

  Sept. 15, 2006, 1:27 p.m.

  I realize that "Jihad" means struggle, personal or otherwise. The problem is most westerners hear the work and the first thing they think of is "murder" or at best "unholy war" Sorry but war is never holy, no ones god or religion preaches that. So it's the bastardized abuse of the term from Islamic extremists that have given us the definition. For the most part we don't want or care to understand the subtlety or Islamic lingo. We just don't want you to murder us in cold blood because we don't believe in your version of religion.....
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  hecuba

  Sept. 15, 2006, 1:35 p.m.

  Thank you Eagle Eye! My extremely good friend heir Bennedict, has proven himself to be a bigot and all round 'bad man'! I am not R.C. nor am I a biblical scholar, however, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that he most likely agrees with every word of that 14th century 'slander'. Probably because he is still living in that period.

  I also know why the Turks and others are angry with his Holiness...The (infalible) Pope supposedly leads one of the worlds largest 'Christian' religions. For a son of Christ to even think about inciting the unfortunate hatred and fear that exists in this world, is to my mind heretical.

  And to my friend Oscar, I recomend that you take some time to read what the Dali Lamma has to say on love, brotherhood and peace, before you consider praise of him to be desparaging of someone else.

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