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Iraq is Vietnam-and You'd Better Believe It »
Posted by: populist 1 year, 8 months agoNothing destroys troop morale faster than being in a war you know is pointless. As the situation continues to deteriorate in Iraq, anti-American feelings will increase. Cursed for staying, we will now be cursed for leaving. Iraq will become an ever more dangerous place for any American to be.
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Comments: 458
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populist
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:26 p.m.The key here is that the war is pointless - unconstitutional - and entirely ruinous. The time to get out is now.
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djn3nunez3
Dec. 20, 2006, 10:38 a.m.The invasion was a strategic blunder that will likely haunt us for decades.
Since accepting aid from the US in fighting our proxie war with Iran, to the first gulf war, then sancations, and now the US invasion and occupation, Iraq, once the most modern and secular of all the Arab nations, has decended into civil disorder and chaos. This disorder is giving the terrorist more resources to attack us with than ever before, and threatens to spread throughout the entire region.
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JustCallMeV
Dec. 20, 2006, 2:59 p.m.That just summed up the entire article. Once again a good article and comments Populist.
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mivan4
Dec. 20, 2006, 3:40 p.m.Just like Vietnam, we quit then latter found out that
a few more feet of tunneling we would have uncovered
North Vietnams' underground headquarters and won the
war!!!!!!!!!!. But instead we bowed to the propaganda
machine that North Vietnam used aganist us and quit.
North Vietnam knew the only way they could win the war
was to hold out long enough to let the propaganda work and
their strategy did work. There are published works that document the Norths Strategy and that had we held on for just a few more days we would have WON THE UNWINNABLE WAR.
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Razor
Dec. 20, 2006, 7:51 p.m.War? what War? The war was over before it even started. What we have now is a conquered country trying to re-establish its self as a democracy, with rebels vying for power illegitimately. We need to bolster the fledgling government so they can keep the radicals(sheits) from overthrowing the legitimate government and killing millions of Kurdish men women and children, (guess which faction of Islam Iran is...You guessed it the troublemakers). Then we can leave and go home. What part of that don't you get? Also, if you'd have been there, and talked to the soldiers and Iraqi people there is nothing shameful or pointless about what has been accomplished. Your just self centered and don't want to fork out a couple lousy thousand dollars on anyone but you self.
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Illuminate
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:33 p.m.The key is that its the same o same o- does the author say its unconstitutional??
The point I disagree with as retired Military is the only thing worse than a pointless war is an apathetic or hateful US Public that blames (allegations) the soldier, too (and I've heard it starting already - dont uphold the constitution, killers, torturers, etc) and the Impeach, jail or worse the current Admin (on allegations) without due process (seeing that alot on the boards recently, too)
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populist
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:36 p.m.that's an interesting opinion...thanks for sharing your personal feelings on what's worse. I feel the author's opinion is just as valid and quite well-put.
peace...
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Illuminate
Dec. 20, 2006, 1:24 a.m.Oh no (yes) (I've been slammed on a lot today- not by U here- for not being clear) I agree his is a very (just as) valid point - hope I didnt infer it wasnt...
and unconstitutional or not- it would still be a pointless war.
Fighting a cold and cold medicine....
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Beau7890
Dec. 20, 2006, 2:01 a.m.I know there was a problem with Vietnam War protesters deriding soldiers in the '60s, but everyone I know personally who speaks out against the war in Iraq, supports the soldiers.
Many of them have complaints about the cost-cutting way this war's being fought. (Yes, for those of you whose jaws dropped to the floor, though it's been very expensive, much of that money has been wasted and not gotten through to the soldiers who need it.)
But all of them just want to get the soldiers home, out of harm's way--they have no problem with the soldiers. Just the chickenhawks in DC who're running--and profiting from--an unncessary and ill-advised war.
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djn3nunez3
Dec. 20, 2006, 10:44 a.m.I disagree. A pointless war is far more damaging than a few (and I mean very few, I've never meet one) hatefull people that would blame the soilders. Far worse are those who would take a single instance of such behavior and ascribe it to all who disagree with the war.
BTW impeachment is due process for a President accussed of High Crimes.
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nakedtruth
Dec. 20, 2006, 11:03 a.m.{{and the Impeach, jail or worse the current Admin (on allegations) without due process (seeing that alot on the boards recently, too)}}
Ok, have you actually read the constituion? Impeachment, by it's very definition IS DUE PROCESS! Impeachment is the same as "indictment". It's simply a preliminary trial. I agree that we shouldn't be hateful toward returning vets. They've been screwed over by this administration worse than anyone else. And I'm against ANYONE who crashes ANY funeral be it "left wingers" or "right wingers". (Like the church that crashes military funerals so they can blame the failure in Iraq on homosexuality.)
That said I think it's JUST as wrong to try to tie support for the vets to support for the current administration. Let them stand, or fall, on their own two feet. If purposefully lied about reasons to go to war in Iraq (and the evidence suggests they did) then let the DUE PROCESS OF IMPEACHMENT sort this out.
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MajJohn
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:12 p.m.Amen to that "illuminate". Nothing can demoralize a soldier more than lack of support at home. This lack of support was expressed by the media during Vietnam. The media then as now is not directed by the news, it creates it's own news to suit their political agenda. The media shaped public opinion and did not reflect opinion or what was happening on the ground. Now the media also includes posts on the WWW which gives our opponents an instantaneous false sense of victory. The terrorists are partly correct by believing just, "wait it out, US resolve will falter". Saying that the war is pointless, unconstitutional and so on is not only stupid, it offers comfort to the enemy. Free speach while necessary in any Democracy is that Democracies weakness. It is up to our citizens to exercise our freedoms responsibly.
While in RVN the papers received from home didn't reflect what was happening on the ground. The same thing is happening now. Two wars same old crap!
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betruthful
Dec. 20, 2006, 2:04 p.m.I think the ignorant radicals that blame the troops are a very small number.
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cappy877
Dec. 20, 2006, 2:11 p.m.Although I disagree strongly in regards to the war, I support the soldier 100%. Maybe it is because I too am ex-military...and my old unit is there. But I think my feelings would be the same either way. It's a damn shame that people slam the military. On another note, it's also a damn shame that the leaders (military and civilian) are prosecuting line level soldiers for the abuses in the Iraq prisons, but not the unit and battalion heads. You can't tell me that they didn't know what was going on. Just not possible.
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jeffery1
Dec. 20, 2006, 3:15 p.m.No one against what Bush has done that I know or have read the opinion of blames the "soldier" (I assume you include all branches under that term). We blame Bush and his administration. The military has obviously found that certain personnel have committed crimes and prosecuted them. All that is left is to punish the administration officials reponsible for the invasion and the subsequent failure in Iraq.
Bush lied us into this needless invasion and supported his lies with manipulated intelligence. This is fact. Due process is for the courts, if the Democrats make the effort to build a case, impeach, then indict. I've given Bush due process and he's guilty.
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cynicalfairy
Dec. 20, 2006, 5:11 p.m.I agree.
Nothing destroys troop morale faster than being told that their war is pointless and inhuman.
It's already happened. The Dems had their chance to not go to war, and they voted for it anyway. They can say they were lied to, but I'm not buying that either. They made their choice. Everybody makes their choice. Now we have to live with the consequences.
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jehovahjones
Dec. 21, 2006, 5:54 p.m.The public is hardly apathetic or hateful. The latter is the Bush admin.
And if some douche bag that kills civilians happens to be wearing a US uniform, what is that but hate, and requiring condemnation by the public.
You need to look up due process: that's what impeachment is.
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bubba2
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:09 a.m.Does a war have to be 'unconstitutional' to be wrong or to be stopped?
The Iraq war was based on lies - the Bush administration lied to Congress and to the American people about the reasons to invade. Iraq was NO threat to America or to anyone else. Bush has violated our Constution and that IS unconstituational and is grounds for impeachment.
Where is Osama? Is the Bush administration looking for him? HE is responsible for 9/11 and for 21st century terrorism! But Bush "doesn't think much about him any more".
It is a myth that anyone against the war blames the soldiers! That is vitriolic spin spewed out by the likes of FOX News and the white house. EVERYONE I know that is against the war is FOR the troops! They ALL know that all fault for this war is with Bush and his cronies and NOT with the military. When the military and the CIA have TRIED to tell Bush the REAL story of the situation in Iraq, they are demoted or fired!
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Illuminate
Dec. 20, 2006, 1:26 a.m.What about the people, families that my friends and I shield from the nutjobs that are crashing Vets funerals here in Southern California.
So they're not real- Bikers for Vets is not real??
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MajJohn
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:19 p.m.Keep saying Bush lied and eventually a majority will believe it. This is the same thing the Germans did in WW II. You don't like to hear the truth, so turn off Fox news and listen to something else. FOX news has the ratings it has because you're still in the minority.
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spikecwc
Dec. 20, 2006, 5:48 p.m.Actually, only a few wars have been "constitutional" in the strictest sense. WW1, WW2, War of 1812 and the War with Mexico. I can't think of any others where war was declared by Congress.
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bubba2
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:11 a.m.How many more innocent people will die, how many more days and weeks and months will Iraqi schools be closed and electricity be off and water be unclean, how much more DEBT will we rack up with China, Taiwan, and Japan for this so-called war, and how fed up do the American people have to get to put a STOP to the madness of our 'occupation' of Iraq??
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populist
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:24 a.m.well said, bubba. In complete agreement with you on this!
peace...
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Illuminate
Dec. 20, 2006, 1:31 a.m.What Iraqi schools besides one or two provinces are closed? No clean water? Where? Electricity??
Arent the military that arent for current policy saying its not widespread- its only one or two provinces where the insurgents and US and/or Iraqi (military or whatever it is) has no control??
I have buddies over there in Iraq and Afganistan and in their letters they talk about how they wish the Media would cover the bridges, schools, infrastructure the Military is rebuilding.
So Iraq is just a cesspool of blownup buildings, no electricity or water and chaos everywhere??
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Illuminate
Dec. 20, 2006, 3:01 a.m.Sorry not to be confrontational but have I missed something somewhere, how does this war rack up debt to China, Taiwan and Japan??
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not2needy
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:38 a.m.My husband is a Nam vet, he said the day they deployed the first troops that this would end up being another Vietnam. He was right, i knew it then.
Such a shame, lives lost for nothing more than Bush's ego, among other things.
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aquarius448
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:41 a.m.History repeats itself.I will always listen to vets and their stories and insight because they have been places that I cannot dare to imagine myself in. They are my heroes and guardians and I can never forget their contributions to the safety of my family and friends. (King George commands and they obey)...you can substitute King George for whatever is more appropriate.
Now as far as politiians are concerned...Please ...give me a break. I have been a card carrying,dedicated member of a political party for 20 years. I have been at the highest level of local federal politics for many years. After all that time ...I came to the bone rattling conclusion that it was all an illusion.
..Politics is a filthy game played by the elite and priviledged. Their tools are the poor and underpriviledged. Their shield is righteousness...and when all else fails BS baffles brains.
