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Obama Condemns Pastor But Defends Continued Relationship
Politics – Barack Obama roundly condemned the remarks of his controversial pastor on Tuesday but also took several steps to explain why the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr.'s incendiary rhetoric is still valid.
""We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can do that. But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change. That is one option.
"Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, 'Not this time,' " he said."
Wow. What a slickster. OF COURSE he doesn't want us to focus on this. OF COURSE he wants us to ignore the hate and bigotry of his pastor. lol, can we say political expedience?
He will win the nomination but lose the general election.
And of course, The Modern Republican has found their issue with which to focus their hatred like a laser beam.
And it's a good one for them.
It's got all the good, meaty stuff they can sink their teeth into. It's got issues related to religion - (anything that diverges from their fundamentalist leanings is suspect). It's got issues related to patriotism. (anyone who doesn't think everything about America is perfect - and no reflection is necessary - is suspect.)
Yes, they will sink their teeth into this one and not let go because it offers the one thing Conservatives in America long for. The desperate desire that things stay exactly the way they are.
More precisely, they desperately desire that things return to the way things were in 1957.
And God danm anyone who embraces a more expansive vision of what this country can be - how great it can be.
It's a pure smear. Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that? And he dares speak what he feels is the truth about what motivates our enemies in the ME, instead of offering up the "They hate us for our freedoms" or just the "Religion of Peace Islamofascist" BS.
The rhetoric displayed by a Black Preacher in America in this well edited video should not supprise anyone at all.
Hey djn3, it's not a smear. It is simply exposing the hate that this preacher spews. He is (or was) selling these tapes from the church's website. If it's a smear he did it himself.
Not matter how you slice it, itt's simply not the most important issue to the country, and it's not an issue that affects the voters, like the economy, the war, the lack of consumer protections from corporatism, etc.
Obama's speech was a great one for those who heard it. You can read the full transcript at msnbc.com. It lends perspective to public discourse.
That perspective has been sorely missing for the past several presidential elections.
As far as its function as a smear, it stimulates the same emotions those who insisted Obama was a Muslim did. When that story was discredited, those who spread it--and it damn well wasn't Hillary Clinton back then--went looking for another that hit the same fear of "the other."
Whatever you think of Obama's record as an elected official, a professor of constitutional law, a community activist, you'll find nothing therein that indicates he has some hidden racist agenda.
Beau7890: "Obama's speech was a great one for those who heard it."
I agree. There will also be an interview with him on ABC at 11:30 on Nightlite (?), where he is supposed to answer some really tough questions - for those who are interested.
The preacher is not running for president, and claiming that his rhetoric, which may be offensive but falls far short of hate speech, is somehow reflective of Obamas's thoughts and beliefs is the smear.
In case you weren't aware of this, there can, and usually is, a huge dufference between what a racist, or anyone else for that matter, "feels is the truth" and what is actually the truth.
I keep wondering if this had been Huckabee saying these things, or a pastor at a church he had attended for 20 years made these comments, would anyone be saying this "It's a pure smear. Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that? And he dares speak what he feels is the truth about what motivates our enemies in the ME, instead of offering up the "They hate us for our freedoms" or just the "Religion of Peace Islamofascist" BS.' about him?
And as far as what happened in So. Chicago in 2003 that might have prompted such a speech, well living here very far sound in Chicago, can't think of a thing that would have prompted such hate from Wright or anyone else.
I don't know what happened in South Chicago in 2003, but I do know what happened in another part of the world. The US invaded Iraq unjustly and illegally. I have a feeling that a lot of people in the world were saying "God damn America" those days.
>>can't think of a thing that would have prompted such hate from Wright or anyone else.
You can't think of anything? Look at the history of this country - starting w/the Western Europeans taking lands from Native Americans. Move onto slavery, indentured servitude, & the treatment of basically every immigrant group after that. Then add the descrimination that Blacks have had to live with since slavery, including the beatings & lynchings through the civil rights era & beyond, & case after case of Blacks (AND Latinos) being sentenced at an excessively higher rate than Whites who have committed the same crimes.
And then, just for laughs, look at all the Blacks who have spent years & decades on Death Row, only to be exonerated because of falsified evidence & testimony, confessions under torture, & plain old jury stacking.
No. I can't think of 1 reason why an elderly Black Minister would be angry.
Candida and PapaWolf when djn3nunez3 said "Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that?" Silly me thought ""Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003" was really referring to something that might have happened in So. Chicago in 2003, where I had only lived for 46 years at that time, anyway, I was thinking what was said actually meant what might have happened in So. Chicago in 2003, how was I too know it was really a reference to Iraq, Slavery, Native Americans..., like I said, silly me, I thought it was just about So. Chicago, 2003, and what might have prompted Wright to say the things he did. I didn't see all the hidden meanings you found in the message I was responding too, go figure, I just read what it said and didn't read all I supposed to into the comment like you did. Thanks for clearing this all up for me.
While some of Wright's comments are inflammatory, it's disconcerting that so many feel as if they can summarize Wright's character from a few soundbytes. Jeremiah Wright is not the only one here guilty of uttering inflammatory comments in the heat of anger or passion, yet many are ready to condemn him as if they are faultless, and yet excuse others, like John McCain:
"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."
If we are to judge a man more by his actions than for his words, then why not examine the entire body of Wright's work? Isn't his service in the U.S. Marine Corps and Navy more indicative of Wright's character than these soundbytes? Aren't the decades dedicated to fighting poverty more indicative?
If not, then don't vote Wright for president. What is clear, however, is that Obama became acquainted and collaborated with Wright while Obama was also fighting poverty as a community organizer in Chicago (and later again when Obama rebuffed a high-paying corporate law position to accept a smaller salary, at a less-prestigious firm so that he could return to fighting poverty and representing the disadvantaged in Chicago).
"Obama had his pick of top law firms. He chose Miner's Chicago civil rights firm, where he represented community organizers, discrimination victims and black voters trying to force a redrawing of city ward boundaries. 'It's a real do-good firm,' says Fay Clayton. 'wasn't going to make as much money there as he would at a LaSalle Street firm or in New York, but money was never Barack's first priority anyway.'"
Now many are trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Wright. I doubt most of you have accomplished NEARLY as much good as Wright has for his country (in the military) and his community (in his ministry). You may claim to know Jeremiah Wright, but the fact is that you don't know any more than the soundbytes. You don't know all of his good deeds which might possibly outweigh Wright's imperfections.
"The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."
Furthermore, through some torturous logic, some believe Obama espouses everything Wright uttered, despite the fact that Obama is half-white himself and (unlike McCain) has NEVER been quoted uttering racist comments.
"The only relevant question is: are Obama's beliefs represented by the handful of video clips of the most incendiary of Wright's sermons? I can find no evidence that he is. Give me a speech or a sentence or an off-hand remark in the last twenty years in which Obama has said such a thing or reflected such a worldview and I will gladly post it."
"Sen. Obama has done nothing to indicate he is anti-American. In fact, his whole life is a testament to the American Dream."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Wright and Obama collaborated on community projects together, but have otherwise very different philosophies and temperaments.
"The smear machine is after Barack Obama. Not that this is surprising, or even anything new: they've been conducting a low-level hate campaign ever since he attained front-runner status, using the same guilt-by-association technique that they used against Ron Paul. The basic strategy is to make Obama answer for each and every one of Wright's pronouncements, no matter how wacky or lame-brained."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Obama was slow to distance himself from Wright because Obama actually knows Wright, has witnessed the tremendous amount of good Wright has done for those in need, and has decided that the lifetime of Wright's good deeds far outweighs the few inflammatory soundbytes circulating the web. It doesn't occur to you that a few soundbytes may not be sufficient to judge the entire body of Wright's life work. It doesn't occur to you that the picture painted by these soundbytes may be narrow in perspective.
Finally, it's shocking that the SAME people, who defend Ann Coulter's hatred, are now the VERY SAME condemning Obama--not for his own racist comments, but for being too slow to distance himself from the comments made by another. Where was your outrage when:
1) Pat Robertson, who regularly spouts homophobic diatribes, endorsed Giuliani.
2) Jerry Falwell, who called 9/11 an act of divine punishment on homosexuals, endorsed Huckabee.
3) Ann Coulter, whose regular homophobic, bigoted, and antisemitic comments have made her a CELEBRITY on Fox News, defends and endorses Bush.
4) George Allen called Indian journalist S.R. Sidarth "macaca."
5) Mitt Romney and Tony Snow uttered the racially-charged term "tar baby."
6) Bob Jones III, who banned interracial dating at his school and calls Catholicism a "cult," endorsed Romney.
This false outrage reeks of hypocrisy and double standards.
I apologize in advance for the long post, but this needed to be articulated.
Not a bad rant, except for the tar baby junk. For those undereducated among us, a tar baby is someone or something you want to get rid of but cannot, because it is stuck to you like tar. There is absolutely nothing racist about the term.
That is exactly correct, PAPAWOLF. For the undereducated among us, the meanings of words aren't static but evolve and change over time. While TKYRCHNCS correctly defines the etymology of the phrase "tar baby," to deny the offensiveness of the modern connotation is to be naive or profoundly ill-informed.
Those who take offense at a term for reasons other than the meaning are idiots. The only persons I have ever actually referred to as tar babies were white, but if a black person acted like they did I wouldn't hesitate an instant. And it wouldn't be racist. This whole conversation reminds me of a local town council who wanted to fire the town manager because he called the budget "******rdly", the racist!
Ok ybdogsct, let me ask you a couple of things, what do you really know about me? did I serve my country in the service? what religion am I? when have you seen me defend Ann Coulter? You say you doubt most conservatives here have done as much as Wright has for their country, do you really know, or is that just a guess?
My point is you seem to make a lot of assumptions, if you don't agree with someones political view, or think you don't since I know you don't really have a clue about mine, you say things like you just did in comment after comment. So I'll ask again, what do you know about me, or anyone else here really? I know what I've done, where I've been, and why I believe what I believe. One thing I will tell you that I do believe is that actions do speak louder than words, like the action of attending the same church for over 20 years, to me that action says you tend to greatly agree with what you hear there, or you would take the action of leaving and findind a new church.
so go ahead ybdogsct, tell me all about who I am, what I believe, I'd like to know, so I can see just how right, or more likely, how extremely wrong you are when you judge who I am colored by your own prejudices towards who you've decided I am without really having the smallest clue.
That is precisely my point. Judging the entirety of Jeremiah Wright's character and life work based on a handful of soundbytes is like judging your character based on a handful of your cherrypicked posts on Propeller. It's unreasonable and lends to an inadequate portrayal that is short on perspective.
I'm not sure why you're helping me prove my point, but I don't really think I needed it. I believe I articulated my argument well enough.
ZAPH:
"You say you doubt most conservatives here have done as much as Wright has for their country, do you really know, or is that just a guess?"
I didn't just say "most conservatives"; I said most people period. Let me tell you something. I spend my weekends volunteering in a center that serves children with autism and Klinefelter's. I've spent a summer working with Habitat for Humanity and several with Doctors Without Borders.
I've spent 3 years teaching in public schools in low-income school districts. I am one of the first to volunteer for food drives, clothing drives, and blood drives at my local church.
I try to lead a good life, but when I read all of the good Wright has accomplished in his DECADES of ministry and service to his community, I am floored. Wright has achieved far more good for far more people than I have. I hope someday to be able to help as many people as Wright has, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have somehow equaled Wright's lifetime of dedicated service just yet.
How have you served your community?
ZAPH:
"if you don't agree with someones political view"
This has NOTHING to do with political views. It has to do with character assassination based on soundbytes that are narrow in perspective. It has to do with disregarding Wright's life work. It has to do with blaming Obama for an act of racism he didn't commit.
You've missed the point ENTIRELY. My comments were not directed at you personally, it was directed to all the members of this board collectively.
ZAPH:
"what do you know about me, or anyone else here really?"
Again, I appreciate your helping me make my point, but I don't really need it. That's exactly right. A person's character can't be adequately judged from several posts on Propeller, just as Jeremiah Wright's character shouldn't be judged from a few soundbytes.
ZAPH:
"I do believe is that actions do speak louder than words"
You obviously don't because you continue to disregard Wright's lifetime of service and ministry and continue to judge him based on the few soundbytes circulating the web. You don't know the man. You continue to ignore Jeremiah Wright's service in the US Marine Corps and Navy as well as the decades dedicated to fighting poverty and struggling for civil rights:
The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."
ZAPH:
"the action of attending the same church for over 20 years"
This fits into an ongoing pattern of (1) being unable to find any dirt on Obama himself, (2) resorting to denigrating his associates, and (3) making Obama somehow responsible for SOMEONE ELSE's words and actions:
For example, Rezko is under investigation for corruption. Obama is not, his land transactions were deemed legal, and there is not a SINGLE bill he pushed through Congress at the behest of Rezko that would intimate a quid pro quo relationship. Yet Obama, who has NEVER been investigated for corruption unlike Hillary Clinton (Whitewater) and John McCain (Keating 5), is somehow smeared.
And now, there is Jeremiah Wright, whose lifetime of service to the poor is being besmirched because of a few soundbytes endlessly looping on the web. Somehow Obama, who has NEVER been quoted as uttering racist comments (unlike John McCain), who is half-white himself, and who was raised by his white mother following the abandonment of his black father, is somehow labeled racist against white America.
Show me a crime Obama himself has committed (not someone Obama happens to know, but Obama HIMSELF) and I will denounce him just as I denounce Gov. Spitzer. But so far, you have nothing. You continue to condemn Obama because of acts of corruption and racism committed by people he knows (Rezko & Wright), while giving a free pass to John McCain who HIMSELF has committed acts of corruption (Keating 5) and racism.
ZAPH:
"that action says you tend to greatly agree with what you hear there"
No. I already addressed this. Obama remained friends with Wright because they collaborated on a number of projects to help the poor when Obama was a community organizer. Obama has witnessed the good deeds Wright has accomplished, respects Wright for his ACTIONS, and likely believes these good deeds outweigh the incendiary soundbytes circling the web; but that doesn't mean Obama espouses all of Wright's beliefs. It doesn't take much to see how much they differ in beliefs and temperament.
Sorry, zaph. But when I hear/see someone say they can't think why Blacks - or Latinos, Native Americans, etc - would be angry, I'm a bit perplexed.
And I heard parts of his speech. What I heard was a litany of conduct occurring over years, not 1 single event; I can't think of too many single events that would engender that kind of rage.
And I'd also be interested to hear what happened in '03.
When I first read your reply here I was not in a good frame of mind, and at first I was ready to say this... "Talk about reading into things, I said I didn't wee why ONE MAN would see anything that happened in Chicago as a reason to say the things HE said. Now show me where I ever said anything about "when I hear/see someone say they can't think why Blacks - or Latinos, Native Americans, etc - would be angry, I'm a bit perplexed."
And for that matter tell me something you must think you know about me, but I'm not so sure you really do, what nationality am I, am I black, am I Hispanic, am I white, am I Native American? You jump on a comment I made for something it never said, and then you tell me about how I said something about why certain ethnic groups have reasons to be angry, but you don't know anything about my ethnic background do you?"...
Thankfully, I read your reply above more closely and see you did get my point in the original message now. It's alright, I just proved to myself how easy it is to jump when you really haven't thought about what a comment is really saying, when you read things into it that aren't there because of a bias one way or the other, we all do it at times, of course some more than others. Anyway, that is what I was saying, I can't think of a thing that happened here in the Chicago are in 2003 that would prompt that kind of rage.
This is not an issue of a single speech. The church has members swear allegiance to Africa not America. It shows a black supremacy concept and the church gave a lifetime award to Louis Farrakhan. He gave a lot of sermons like that about several topics. They showed a montage on FOX. That man is disgusting. He was on Hannity and Coombs about several months ago about his rhetoric. He started talking and refused to answer questions and talked nonstop.
He attended that church for 20 years and claims that he didn't hear any of that stuff. He has been caught in a lie about that already.
He claims that the US created the HIV virus, was responsible for having the 9/11 attacks against us, etc. etc. etc.
Some of you who keep repeating this same thing over and over again, as if by doing so, it will obtain the impossible, truthfulness! It's like a needle stuck in a groove, and just as annoying and irritating! Find a new tune, already, this one's played out!
I hate to be rude......but you either were brainwashed or you are the BIGGEST MORON in the world!! I am from Chicago, that is Church where people go to worship the Lord and praise the Lord, not "swear allegiance" to Africa or America. What?????? He went around questions on a B.S. Fox show, like white America hasnt been doing that for years!!! When questioned about there antics they say everything but the topic at hand. Oh!!! I forgot...it's a double standard. White America can do what they want, say what they want and it's okay. I am sooooooo sick and tired of you conservitive, right wing, racist ass republicans. The U.S. probaly did create HIV....who has proof they didnt? They probaly were behind 9/11...who has proof they were'nt? Show me?????? What I do know...this country was built on racism, this country was built at the expense of other peoples blood.
"The U.S. probaly did create HIV....who has proof they didnt?"
There is no proof they did either. However, we do know for a fact the government (mostly white men) did in fact infect hundreds of unsuspecting black men with syphilis (Sp) and denied them treatment when penicillin was discovered, all in the name of science. This was started well before the Nazi's inhumane experiments on their Jews and ended well after the Nazi's demise.
More than one historical incidence - djn. In fact, it is a repeating genocidal theme that includes British colonial era transfer of smallpox to NA indian populations via blankets used in trade... among other "interesting" things... White America would like to think such "solutions" never existed - and/or that the idea does not creep into our thinking from time to time. I suppose it's not a problem until the shoe goes on the other foot... if it ever has. I would welcome any specific case that might show role reversal. So far I have yet to find one. What I have found constitutes a longstanding trend - a tradition - engaged in genocide as well as the denials that follow thereafter.
Ag....no need to promote this video....it's yesterdays news....unless of course you are afraid of the "new kid" in town. It's time to face the facts...a change is needed in the US and Obama is the face of change. When he speaks of uniting the left and right he is speaking to you as well...LOL
There is absolutely no defense for what the current administration has done to your country and other countries as well. Everyday we see more and more Bush supporters both inside and outside of the government conceding that Iraq was wrong ...Afghanistan is right. I believe a lot of Bush supporters are afraid to admit to themselves that what has transpired over the last few years, has been a disaster....a dark point in US history....and one that is a catalysts for the economic woes that you face today and for years to come.
He doesn't preach hate. He doesn't preach divisiveness. He calls for people to come together. I've yet to hear any similar message coming from any of the Republican politicians. All they talk about is low taxes and big military. When are they going to reach out to all Americans like what i see coming from the Democratic candidates?
830)
""We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can do that. But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change. That is one option.
"Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, 'Not this time,' " he said."
Wow. What a slickster. OF COURSE he doesn't want us to focus on this. OF COURSE he wants us to ignore the hate and bigotry of his pastor. lol, can we say political expedience?
He will win the nomination but lose the general election.
And of course, The Modern Republican has found their issue with which to focus their hatred like a laser beam.
And it's a good one for them.
It's got all the good, meaty stuff they can sink their teeth into. It's got issues related to religion - (anything that diverges from their fundamentalist leanings is suspect). It's got issues related to patriotism. (anyone who doesn't think everything about America is perfect - and no reflection is necessary - is suspect.)
Yes, they will sink their teeth into this one and not let go because it offers the one thing Conservatives in America long for. The desperate desire that things stay exactly the way they are.
More precisely, they desperately desire that things return to the way things were in 1957.
And God danm anyone who embraces a more expansive vision of what this country can be - how great it can be.
No, it's all about how small we can think.
And that's the essence of The Modern Republican.
"And of course, The Modern Republican has found their issue with which to focus their hatred like a laser beam."
Not quite, the hatred that Obama's pastor has been spewing for years has simply been exposed.
Is hatred of hate-speech a bad thing?
For those remaining two or three people out there who haven't yet seen this shocking video of Jeremiah Wright, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQWuQVE6sw
My mouth dropped wide open when I watched this video. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This video is INSANE.
It's a pure smear. Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that? And he dares speak what he feels is the truth about what motivates our enemies in the ME, instead of offering up the "They hate us for our freedoms" or just the "Religion of Peace Islamofascist" BS.
The rhetoric displayed by a Black Preacher in America in this well edited video should not supprise anyone at all.
Unless it's a croc suprise.
Hey djn3, it's not a smear. It is simply exposing the hate that this preacher spews. He is (or was) selling these tapes from the church's website. If it's a smear he did it himself.
Not matter how you slice it, itt's simply not the most important issue to the country, and it's not an issue that affects the voters, like the economy, the war, the lack of consumer protections from corporatism, etc.
Obama's speech was a great one for those who heard it. You can read the full transcript at msnbc.com. It lends perspective to public discourse.
That perspective has been sorely missing for the past several presidential elections.
As far as its function as a smear, it stimulates the same emotions those who insisted Obama was a Muslim did. When that story was discredited, those who spread it--and it damn well wasn't Hillary Clinton back then--went looking for another that hit the same fear of "the other."
Whatever you think of Obama's record as an elected official, a professor of constitutional law, a community activist, you'll find nothing therein that indicates he has some hidden racist agenda.
Beau7890: "Obama's speech was a great one for those who heard it."
I agree. There will also be an interview with him on ABC at 11:30 on Nightlite (?), where he is supposed to answer some really tough questions - for those who are interested.
Thanks, Candida. I'll have to check that out.
TonyByron: "If it's a smear he did it himself."
The preacher is not running for president, and claiming that his rhetoric, which may be offensive but falls far short of hate speech, is somehow reflective of Obamas's thoughts and beliefs is the smear.
exactly.
I for one, am not voting for Wright for President.
Tony, sounds like you have a good idea of who is being exposed by that video: wright. not obama.
wish the others on this board could understand that.
They do! They just pretend not to because then they would have to admit what is really the root of their objections.
The root of my objection is one simple phrase that goes too far.
oops!
"And he dares speak what he feels is the truth"
In case you weren't aware of this, there can, and usually is, a huge dufference between what a racist, or anyone else for that matter, "feels is the truth" and what is actually the truth.
I keep wondering if this had been Huckabee saying these things, or a pastor at a church he had attended for 20 years made these comments, would anyone be saying this "It's a pure smear. Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that? And he dares speak what he feels is the truth about what motivates our enemies in the ME, instead of offering up the "They hate us for our freedoms" or just the "Religion of Peace Islamofascist" BS.' about him?
And as far as what happened in So. Chicago in 2003 that might have prompted such a speech, well living here very far sound in Chicago, can't think of a thing that would have prompted such hate from Wright or anyone else.
I don't know what happened in South Chicago in 2003, but I do know what happened in another part of the world. The US invaded Iraq unjustly and illegally. I have a feeling that a lot of people in the world were saying "God damn America" those days.
>>can't think of a thing that would have prompted such hate from Wright or anyone else.
You can't think of anything? Look at the history of this country - starting w/the Western Europeans taking lands from Native Americans. Move onto slavery, indentured servitude, & the treatment of basically every immigrant group after that. Then add the descrimination that Blacks have had to live with since slavery, including the beatings & lynchings through the civil rights era & beyond, & case after case of Blacks (AND Latinos) being sentenced at an excessively higher rate than Whites who have committed the same crimes.
And then, just for laughs, look at all the Blacks who have spent years & decades on Death Row, only to be exonerated because of falsified evidence & testimony, confessions under torture, & plain old jury stacking.
No. I can't think of 1 reason why an elderly Black Minister would be angry.
Candida and PapaWolf when djn3nunez3 said "Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003 for him to be giving a firey speech like that?" Silly me thought ""Any idea what had happened in So. Chicago in 2003" was really referring to something that might have happened in So. Chicago in 2003, where I had only lived for 46 years at that time, anyway, I was thinking what was said actually meant what might have happened in So. Chicago in 2003, how was I too know it was really a reference to Iraq, Slavery, Native Americans..., like I said, silly me, I thought it was just about So. Chicago, 2003, and what might have prompted Wright to say the things he did. I didn't see all the hidden meanings you found in the message I was responding too, go figure, I just read what it said and didn't read all I supposed to into the comment like you did. Thanks for clearing this all up for me.
While some of Wright's comments are inflammatory, it's disconcerting that so many feel as if they can summarize Wright's character from a few soundbytes. Jeremiah Wright is not the only one here guilty of uttering inflammatory comments in the heat of anger or passion, yet many are ready to condemn him as if they are faultless, and yet excuse others, like John McCain:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm
"McCain told reporters, 'I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.'"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259282,00.html
"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."
If we are to judge a man more by his actions than for his words, then why not examine the entire body of Wright's work? Isn't his service in the U.S. Marine Corps and Navy more indicative of Wright's character than these soundbytes? Aren't the decades dedicated to fighting poverty more indicative?
http://www.tucc.org/pastor.htm
If not, then don't vote Wright for president. What is clear, however, is that Obama became acquainted and collaborated with Wright while Obama was also fighting poverty as a community organizer in Chicago (and later again when Obama rebuffed a high-paying corporate law position to accept a smaller salary, at a less-prestigious firm so that he could return to fighting poverty and representing the disadvantaged in Chicago).
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/20/ameri...
"Obama had his pick of top law firms. He chose Miner's Chicago civil rights firm, where he represented community organizers, discrimination victims and black voters trying to force a redrawing of city ward boundaries. 'It's a real do-good firm,' says Fay Clayton. 'wasn't going to make as much money there as he would at a LaSalle Street firm or in New York, but money was never Barack's first priority anyway.'"
Now many are trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Wright. I doubt most of you have accomplished NEARLY as much good as Wright has for his country (in the military) and his community (in his ministry). You may claim to know Jeremiah Wright, but the fact is that you don't know any more than the soundbytes. You don't know all of his good deeds which might possibly outweigh Wright's imperfections.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...
"The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."
Furthermore, through some torturous logic, some believe Obama espouses everything Wright uttered, despite the fact that Obama is half-white himself and (unlike McCain) has NEVER been quoted uttering racist comments.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...
"The only relevant question is: are Obama's beliefs represented by the handful of video clips of the most incendiary of Wright's sermons? I can find no evidence that he is. Give me a speech or a sentence or an off-hand remark in the last twenty years in which Obama has said such a thing or reflected such a worldview and I will gladly post it."
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/729
"Sen. Obama has done nothing to indicate he is anti-American. In fact, his whole life is a testament to the American Dream."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Wright and Obama collaborated on community projects together, but have otherwise very different philosophies and temperaments.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12532
"The smear machine is after Barack Obama. Not that this is surprising, or even anything new: they've been conducting a low-level hate campaign ever since he attained front-runner status, using the same guilt-by-association technique that they used against Ron Paul. The basic strategy is to make Obama answer for each and every one of Wright's pronouncements, no matter how wacky or lame-brained."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Obama was slow to distance himself from Wright because Obama actually knows Wright, has witnessed the tremendous amount of good Wright has done for those in need, and has decided that the lifetime of Wright's good deeds far outweighs the few inflammatory soundbytes circulating the web. It doesn't occur to you that a few soundbytes may not be sufficient to judge the entire body of Wright's life work. It doesn't occur to you that the picture painted by these soundbytes may be narrow in perspective.
Finally, it's shocking that the SAME people, who defend Ann Coulter's hatred, are now the VERY SAME condemning Obama--not for his own racist comments, but for being too slow to distance himself from the comments made by another. Where was your outrage when:
1) Pat Robertson, who regularly spouts homophobic diatribes, endorsed Giuliani.
2) Jerry Falwell, who called 9/11 an act of divine punishment on homosexuals, endorsed Huckabee.
3) Ann Coulter, whose regular homophobic, bigoted, and antisemitic comments have made her a CELEBRITY on Fox News, defends and endorses Bush.
4) George Allen called Indian journalist S.R. Sidarth "macaca."
5) Mitt Romney and Tony Snow uttered the racially-charged term "tar baby."
6) Bob Jones III, who banned interracial dating at his school and calls Catholicism a "cult," endorsed Romney.
This false outrage reeks of hypocrisy and double standards.
I apologize in advance for the long post, but this needed to be articulated.
Not a bad rant, except for the tar baby junk. For those undereducated among us, a tar baby is someone or something you want to get rid of but cannot, because it is stuck to you like tar. There is absolutely nothing racist about the term.
Except for the fact that it was used to denigrate blacks for years. It may not have started as a racist term, but it basically evolved into one.
That is exactly correct, PAPAWOLF. For the undereducated among us, the meanings of words aren't static but evolve and change over time. While TKYRCHNCS correctly defines the etymology of the phrase "tar baby," to deny the offensiveness of the modern connotation is to be naive or profoundly ill-informed.
Those who take offense at a term for reasons other than the meaning are idiots. The only persons I have ever actually referred to as tar babies were white, but if a black person acted like they did I wouldn't hesitate an instant. And it wouldn't be racist. This whole conversation reminds me of a local town council who wanted to fire the town manager because he called the budget "******rdly", the racist!
LOL, I guess the censor here falls into the idiot category!
Ok ybdogsct, let me ask you a couple of things, what do you really know about me? did I serve my country in the service? what religion am I? when have you seen me defend Ann Coulter? You say you doubt most conservatives here have done as much as Wright has for their country, do you really know, or is that just a guess?
My point is you seem to make a lot of assumptions, if you don't agree with someones political view, or think you don't since I know you don't really have a clue about mine, you say things like you just did in comment after comment. So I'll ask again, what do you know about me, or anyone else here really? I know what I've done, where I've been, and why I believe what I believe. One thing I will tell you that I do believe is that actions do speak louder than words, like the action of attending the same church for over 20 years, to me that action says you tend to greatly agree with what you hear there, or you would take the action of leaving and findind a new church.
so go ahead ybdogsct, tell me all about who I am, what I believe, I'd like to know, so I can see just how right, or more likely, how extremely wrong you are when you judge who I am colored by your own prejudices towards who you've decided I am without really having the smallest clue.
ZAPH:
"what do you really know about me?"
That is precisely my point. Judging the entirety of Jeremiah Wright's character and life work based on a handful of soundbytes is like judging your character based on a handful of your cherrypicked posts on Propeller. It's unreasonable and lends to an inadequate portrayal that is short on perspective.
I'm not sure why you're helping me prove my point, but I don't really think I needed it. I believe I articulated my argument well enough.
ZAPH:
"You say you doubt most conservatives here have done as much as Wright has for their country, do you really know, or is that just a guess?"
I didn't just say "most conservatives"; I said most people period. Let me tell you something. I spend my weekends volunteering in a center that serves children with autism and Klinefelter's. I've spent a summer working with Habitat for Humanity and several with Doctors Without Borders.
I've spent 3 years teaching in public schools in low-income school districts. I am one of the first to volunteer for food drives, clothing drives, and blood drives at my local church.
I try to lead a good life, but when I read all of the good Wright has accomplished in his DECADES of ministry and service to his community, I am floored. Wright has achieved far more good for far more people than I have. I hope someday to be able to help as many people as Wright has, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have somehow equaled Wright's lifetime of dedicated service just yet.
How have you served your community?
ZAPH:
"if you don't agree with someones political view"
This has NOTHING to do with political views. It has to do with character assassination based on soundbytes that are narrow in perspective. It has to do with disregarding Wright's life work. It has to do with blaming Obama for an act of racism he didn't commit.
You've missed the point ENTIRELY. My comments were not directed at you personally, it was directed to all the members of this board collectively.
ZAPH:
"what do you know about me, or anyone else here really?"
Again, I appreciate your helping me make my point, but I don't really need it. That's exactly right. A person's character can't be adequately judged from several posts on Propeller, just as Jeremiah Wright's character shouldn't be judged from a few soundbytes.
ZAPH:
"I do believe is that actions do speak louder than words"
You obviously don't because you continue to disregard Wright's lifetime of service and ministry and continue to judge him based on the few soundbytes circulating the web. You don't know the man. You continue to ignore Jeremiah Wright's service in the US Marine Corps and Navy as well as the decades dedicated to fighting poverty and struggling for civil rights:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...
The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."
ZAPH:
"the action of attending the same church for over 20 years"
This fits into an ongoing pattern of (1) being unable to find any dirt on Obama himself, (2) resorting to denigrating his associates, and (3) making Obama somehow responsible for SOMEONE ELSE's words and actions:
For example, Rezko is under investigation for corruption. Obama is not, his land transactions were deemed legal, and there is not a SINGLE bill he pushed through Congress at the behest of Rezko that would intimate a quid pro quo relationship. Yet Obama, who has NEVER been investigated for corruption unlike Hillary Clinton (Whitewater) and John McCain (Keating 5), is somehow smeared.
And now, there is Jeremiah Wright, whose lifetime of service to the poor is being besmirched because of a few soundbytes endlessly looping on the web. Somehow Obama, who has NEVER been quoted as uttering racist comments (unlike John McCain), who is half-white himself, and who was raised by his white mother following the abandonment of his black father, is somehow labeled racist against white America.
Show me a crime Obama himself has committed (not someone Obama happens to know, but Obama HIMSELF) and I will denounce him just as I denounce Gov. Spitzer. But so far, you have nothing. You continue to condemn Obama because of acts of corruption and racism committed by people he knows (Rezko & Wright), while giving a free pass to John McCain who HIMSELF has committed acts of corruption (Keating 5) and racism.
ZAPH:
"that action says you tend to greatly agree with what you hear there"
No. I already addressed this. Obama remained friends with Wright because they collaborated on a number of projects to help the poor when Obama was a community organizer. Obama has witnessed the good deeds Wright has accomplished, respects Wright for his ACTIONS, and likely believes these good deeds outweigh the incendiary soundbytes circling the web; but that doesn't mean Obama espouses all of Wright's beliefs. It doesn't take much to see how much they differ in beliefs and temperament.
Sorry, zaph. But when I hear/see someone say they can't think why Blacks - or Latinos, Native Americans, etc - would be angry, I'm a bit perplexed.
And I heard parts of his speech. What I heard was a litany of conduct occurring over years, not 1 single event; I can't think of too many single events that would engender that kind of rage.
And I'd also be interested to hear what happened in '03.
When I first read your reply here I was not in a good frame of mind, and at first I was ready to say this... "Talk about reading into things, I said I didn't wee why ONE MAN would see anything that happened in Chicago as a reason to say the things HE said. Now show me where I ever said anything about "when I hear/see someone say they can't think why Blacks - or Latinos, Native Americans, etc - would be angry, I'm a bit perplexed."
And for that matter tell me something you must think you know about me, but I'm not so sure you really do, what nationality am I, am I black, am I Hispanic, am I white, am I Native American? You jump on a comment I made for something it never said, and then you tell me about how I said something about why certain ethnic groups have reasons to be angry, but you don't know anything about my ethnic background do you?"...
Thankfully, I read your reply above more closely and see you did get my point in the original message now. It's alright, I just proved to myself how easy it is to jump when you really haven't thought about what a comment is really saying, when you read things into it that aren't there because of a bias one way or the other, we all do it at times, of course some more than others. Anyway, that is what I was saying, I can't think of a thing that happened here in the Chicago are in 2003 that would prompt that kind of rage.
djn3nunez3
This is not an issue of a single speech. The church has members swear allegiance to Africa not America. It shows a black supremacy concept and the church gave a lifetime award to Louis Farrakhan. He gave a lot of sermons like that about several topics. They showed a montage on FOX. That man is disgusting. He was on Hannity and Coombs about several months ago about his rhetoric. He started talking and refused to answer questions and talked nonstop.
He attended that church for 20 years and claims that he didn't hear any of that stuff. He has been caught in a lie about that already.
He claims that the US created the HIV virus, was responsible for having the 9/11 attacks against us, etc. etc. etc.
Some of you who keep repeating this same thing over and over again, as if by doing so, it will obtain the impossible, truthfulness! It's like a needle stuck in a groove, and just as annoying and irritating! Find a new tune, already, this one's played out!
Especially considering that there are Whites in the congregation as well.
I hate to be rude......but you either were brainwashed or you are the BIGGEST MORON in the world!! I am from Chicago, that is Church where people go to worship the Lord and praise the Lord, not "swear allegiance" to Africa or America. What?????? He went around questions on a B.S. Fox show, like white America hasnt been doing that for years!!! When questioned about there antics they say everything but the topic at hand. Oh!!! I forgot...it's a double standard. White America can do what they want, say what they want and it's okay. I am sooooooo sick and tired of you conservitive, right wing, racist ass republicans. The U.S. probaly did create HIV....who has proof they didnt? They probaly were behind 9/11...who has proof they were'nt? Show me?????? What I do know...this country was built on racism, this country was built at the expense of other peoples blood.
"The U.S. probaly did create HIV....who has proof they didnt?"
There is no proof they did either. However, we do know for a fact the government (mostly white men) did in fact infect hundreds of unsuspecting black men with syphilis (Sp) and denied them treatment when penicillin was discovered, all in the name of science. This was started well before the Nazi's inhumane experiments on their Jews and ended well after the Nazi's demise.
More than one historical incidence - djn. In fact, it is a repeating genocidal theme that includes British colonial era transfer of smallpox to NA indian populations via blankets used in trade... among other "interesting" things... White America would like to think such "solutions" never existed - and/or that the idea does not creep into our thinking from time to time. I suppose it's not a problem until the shoe goes on the other foot... if it ever has. I would welcome any specific case that might show role reversal. So far I have yet to find one. What I have found constitutes a longstanding trend - a tradition - engaged in genocide as well as the denials that follow thereafter.
Ag....no need to promote this video....it's yesterdays news....unless of course you are afraid of the "new kid" in town. It's time to face the facts...a change is needed in the US and Obama is the face of change. When he speaks of uniting the left and right he is speaking to you as well...LOL
There is absolutely no defense for what the current administration has done to your country and other countries as well. Everyday we see more and more Bush supporters both inside and outside of the government conceding that Iraq was wrong ...Afghanistan is right. I believe a lot of Bush supporters are afraid to admit to themselves that what has transpired over the last few years, has been a disaster....a dark point in US history....and one that is a catalysts for the economic woes that you face today and for years to come.
Nope. I've been out of town and this was all fresh news to me when I got back. I'm still reeling from it. The video, not the weekend, lol.
And no, I didn't watch any news while I was gone . . . that's why it was such a good weekend! :D
Well here's the the whole video. Some have already likened it to speeches made by the great late Dr. martin Luther King Jr.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/2369123...
He doesn't preach hate. He doesn't preach divisiveness. He calls for people to come together. I've yet to hear any similar message coming from any of the Republican politicians. All they talk about is low taxes and big military. When are they going to reach out to all Americans like what i see coming from the Democratic candidates?