Ringing the Bell: What Obama's Speech Says »
Posted by: not2needy 5 months, 3 weeks ago506 Comments Report this Story
Race, Thomas Jefferson said, is "a firebell in the night." You can't unring a bell, which is one of the reasons so many commentators thought Barack Obama was cooked in January when Hillary Clinton's surrogates introduced race into the campaign.
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not2needy5 months, 3 weeks ago
FTA:
Those analysts were wrong; Obama didn't become the "black candidate" then. And I hope they're wrong again when they say that as long as Obama is talking about race instead of the economy and health care, he's losing.
For the bravest thing Obama did in his historic speech at the Constitution Center in Philadelphia was to ring the bell louder. He chose to focus on an uncomfortable topic that most Americans would rather leave unspoken. He offered an honest and gutsy tour of the complexities of our wounded national psyche, even explaining that his own beloved white grandmother engaged in racial stereotypes. And he articulated a big part of what his supporters liked about him in the first place: the chance to take us into a better racial future.
It rather appears, that Hillary and the righties are attempting to keep Obama from addressing the issues by keeping him defending his race and religion. No wonder they all say he is saying nothing! What a real crock.
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Welfare_Made_Me_RichComment removed: User banned.147 Replies
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TheVisionary5 months, 3 weeks ago
What a lot of people don't get from those YouTube clips of Rev. Wright is that he's not entirely misguided in his views. In fact, it's arguable to say that this country is largely led by whites. Is that infuriating and controversial? No. Additionally, he wasn't damning America in the spirit of being unpatriotic, but embracing patriotism and one of the founding principles of this country, the Freedom of Speech.
He wasn't damning America for the sake of damning America. He was damning America as it is now; the corrupt political climate that must be changed and the heavy influence of corporation and industry in today's political machine.
We mask a lot of our racism and racial INtolerance in this country under the guise of political correctness, something Obama poignantly called out in his speech. For me, what Pastor Wright said is being blown out of proportion.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
He's a nut who uses profane language, distortions of history, twisted Liberation Theology(Marxism), and clearly violates IRS restrictions on political activity from the pulpit.
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TheVisionary5 months, 3 weeks ago
I'm not going to base all of my views on a man's preaching style based on short youtube clips. I had a fiery pastor as well. Also check out this article from the Huffington Post about preachers like this.
Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero
When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.
... We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/o...
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Your first mistake is quoting the Left-wing Huffinpuff Post as if it were a credible source. I have never heard Conservative preachers using obscenities and that sort of crude language from the pulpit.
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TheVisionary5 months, 3 weeks ago
Maybe I have different standards of crude language. What was so wrong? That he used the word damn?
I just think that it's a tired subject that has been overblown a bit. Do you honestly believe that Obama doesn't have his own views and theories on government and simply adopts Wright's political views? Obama comes from one of the most diverse families I've known of; in fact he's half white.
I actually work in advertising, and I find it funny because we use the power of association all the time. Right now, you and many others are associating Obama and Wright as one when they aren't. But that's human psychology. I understand you being upset, but let's not let a smear campaign take down everything the man has stood for in the election up to this point and how he has captured the popular vote because of his politics.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
He has used many other crude terms, such as a slang term for breasts. I found that shocking coming from the pulpit. I wouldn't sit in a congregation listening to crap like that and I have to wonder why Obama would.
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TheVisionary5 months, 3 weeks ago
But it's also questionable how many times he was even at church. I'm sure he went, but how often were these outbursts? And if they were so terrible, then why was he allowed to lead that congregation for, what was it, 30 years?
I was a member of a church for several years and went maybe a dozen times. He could've gone every single Sunday, or once a month for all we know. Let's take into account that we're attacking what this man said in terms of politics, but how do we know whether his spiritual message was powerful? I know I've listened to things I didn't agree with because the things I did agree with were very good. We have no way of knowing either way. I just can't judge a man based on short clips.
Now if you showed me one or two full sermons filled with it, then it'd be a different story.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Why was he allowed to lead the church for 30 years, indeed? I have asked the same question. I have seen a number of different clips that clearly came from multiple services. I think there is adequate evidence that this kind of rhetoric was a not uncommon occurance. I'm not attacking Obama as much as I am shocked that he sat through something so lacking in spiritually edifying content for 20 years.
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doggammit5 months, 3 weeks ago
Then maybe you can share some of your indignation over these nasty racists... and the pols who suck up to them...
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/80253/
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doggammit5 months, 3 weeks ago
Hmm. Romney looks like a Mormon lifer to me. He may yet be your next V.P. Huckabee was smitten in a big evangelical love affair - like McCain is today - but wasn't yesterday. McCain obviously has no loyalties - only clients. I guess that paints him up like a cheap ****** doesn't it?
And lest we forget - what about the little church of Skull and Bones? That should rank way up there on anyone's list of pariah organizations. Bush and Rev. Moon? Bush and Billy Graham? Bush and ultra RW evangelicals? Now that's some real ring around the rosy. Republicons seem to like that game - and so I doubt you'll find more than a few who have been loyal to any one religious organization (much less their wives or the constitution ) for 20 years. As for Bush's loyalty to office, I'm sure Obama, Ron Paul or anyone else with more than an ounce of integrity could teach him the lesson of a lifetime...
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Let's see in this post there's anti-Mormon bigotry, an attack on evangelical Christians, and a meaningless reference to Skull and Bones (to which so many members of the ruling class have belonged, regardless of their politics). Ron Paul has no understanding of economics or foreign policy. Take down your Ron Paul Revolution sign, remove your tinfoil hat and get back to reality.
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MonkeyBiz5 months, 3 weeks ago
"I think there is adequate evidence that this kind of rhetoric was a not uncommon occurance...I am shocked that he sat through something so lacking in spiritually edifying content for 20 years."
Rev. Wright gave well over 1,000 sermons in twenty years. You have heard snippets of what, five? six? If you call that adequate evidence, I can see why you are so right wing.
You should save your shock and indignation and check out doggamit's link. I would be curious to hear what you have to say about it.
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questionseverything5 months, 3 weeks ago
5 yrs into the iraq war and mccain still doesnt understand the dif between a sunni and a ******e....joe l the pretend dem had to whisper the dif in his ear ovr the weekend in iraq..lol.so really doesnt matter if or whr mccain goes to church...the american peops dont need another goof in the wh
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
McCain is leading the Dems in the polls now. Someone else is beginning to look goofy.
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MonkeyBiz5 months, 3 weeks ago
I am making the claim that McCain sought their blessing and support. Odd that there was been no media circus and faked outrage from Fux news and some of you right wing bloggers about repugs cozying up to the WHITE religious extremists.
At least Obama has stated he doesn't always agree with Rev. Wright. McCain started down that path, but as soon as he was sure he was the repug nominee, he has sucked up to the religious extremists big time.
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MonkeyBiz5 months, 3 weeks ago
"indoctrinated"
INDOCTRINATED??!!? LOL!!! YOU haven't been paying attention. Obama is a smart, Harvard educated lawyer.
My point, that you are scrupulously avoiding, is that not a peep was made about McCain's beliefs or judgment when he buddied up to the white religious extremists.
If Obama hadn't known Wright, yet for political expediency, cozied up to him, publicly asking for his endorsement and blessing without condemning the worst of Wright's statements, would that be better? Would it be OK if Obama searched out others like Wright to get their endorsement also? If that's not OK, then where is your condemnation of McCain?
Obama has repudiated Wright's worse statements, and even though it may be politically damaging, he is standing by Wright as a man of honor and a friend should.
McCain has NOT repudiated the worst of the white extremists. But if politics required it, he would throw them under the bus in a heartbeat.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
He's a Harvard-educated lawyer? I thought he was a share cropper's son, judging from the content of Wright's sermons. Obama made Wright a member of his campaign staff so of course he sought his endorsement. When McCain attends a white extremist's church for 20 years, he'll have something to repudiate.
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MonkeyBiz5 months, 3 weeks ago
"When McCain attends a white extremist's church for 20 years, he'll have something to repudiate."
Not everyone is as gullible as you are. 20 years or twenty minutes, repudiating or not, is exactly the same.
You really should get out more. Obama's story is fairly compelling, and it has nothing to do with sharecropping.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 2 weeks ago
No one is as gullible as you. Obama's story has nothing to do with national level office...that's the real tragedy.
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mcarpentry5 months, 3 weeks ago
TheVisionary, Obama has come out in his speach in Pennsylvania and admitted he was sitting in the church during some of Wright's tirades. Furthermore he has lied about it, just last week obama claimed he was not present during these tirades. Why shouldn't he be questioned as to his judgement?
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
MCARPENTRY:
"he has lied about it, just last week obama claimed he was not present during these tirades."
No, I don't think that's what Obama was saying at all. He was very careful with his language. Obama simply said that he was not present for those particular Jeremiah Wright soundbytes that are now endlessly looping the web. Was he present when Wright made other "controversial" statements, yes--he was just not present in the particular sermon that was videotaped and being aired repeatedly on the web.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/...
"Obama said that he was not present in the congregation when Mr. Wright made the various remarks at issue and that he strongly condemns them."
What follows this are several posts I made in another thread. I hope the OP NOT2NEEDY won't mind if I repost here, as I believe the points need to be reiterated. This is addressed to all members.
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
While some of Wright's comments are inflammatory, it's disconcerting that so many feel as if they can summarize Wright's character from a few soundbytes. Jeremiah Wright is not the only one here guilty of uttering inflammatory comments in the heat of anger or passion, yet many are ready to condemn him as if they are faultless, and yet excuse others, like John McCain:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm
"McCain told reporters, 'I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.'"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259282,00.html
"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."
If we are to judge a man more by his actions than for his words, then why not examine the entire body of Wright's work? Isn't his service in the U.S. Marine Corps and Navy more indicative of Wright's character than these soundbytes? Aren't the decades dedicated to fighting poverty more indicative?
http://www.tucc.org/pastor.htm
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
If not, then don't vote Wright for president. What is clear, however, is that Obama remained friends with Wright because they collaborated on a number of projects to help the poor when Obama was a community organizer. Obama has witnessed the good deeds Wright has accomplished, respects Wright for his ACTIONS, and likely believes these good deeds outweigh the incendiary soundbytes circling the web; but that doesn't mean Obama espouses all of Wright's beliefs.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/20/ameri...
"Obama had his pick of top law firms. He chose Miner's Chicago civil rights firm, where he represented community organizers, discrimination victims and black voters trying to force a redrawing of city ward boundaries. 'It's a real do-good firm,' says Fay Clayton. 'wasn't going to make as much money there as he would at a LaSalle Street firm or in New York, but money was never Barack's first priority anyway.'"
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
Now many are trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Wright. I doubt most of you have accomplished NEARLY as much good as Wright has for his country (in the military) and his community (in his ministry). You may claim to know Jeremiah Wright, but the fact is that you don't know any more than the soundbytes. You don't know all of his good deeds which might possibly outweigh Wright's imperfections.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...
"The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
Injustice breeds anger. Wright's imperfection is that he let it this anger get to him and vented it in an incendiary way. However, his words do nothing to diminish the decades of good deeds he has accomplished by fighting poverty and struggling for civil rights.
Wright has accomplished quite a bit of good for the disadvantaged members of his community. What have you done recently for yours?
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
Furthermore, through some torturous logic, some believe Obama espouses everything Wright uttered, despite the fact that Obama is half-white himself and (unlike McCain) has NEVER been quoted uttering racist comments.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...
"The only relevant question is: are Obama's beliefs represented by the handful of video clips of the most incendiary of Wright's sermons? I can find no evidence that he is. Give me a speech or a sentence or an off-hand remark in the last twenty years in which Obama has said such a thing or reflected such a worldview and I will gladly post it."
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/729
"Sen. Obama has done nothing to indicate he is anti-American. In fact, his whole life is a testament to the American Dream."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Wright and Obama collaborated on community projects together, but have otherwise very different philosophies and temperaments.
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12532
"The smear machine is after Barack Obama. Not that this is surprising, or even anything new: they've been conducting a low-level hate campaign ever since he attained front-runner status, using the same guilt-by-association technique that they used against Ron Paul. The basic strategy is to make Obama answer for each and every one of Wright's pronouncements, no matter how wacky or lame-brained."
It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Obama was slow to distance himself from Wright because Obama actually knows Wright, has witnessed the tremendous amount of good Wright has done for those in need, and has decided that the lifetime of Wright's good deeds far outweighs the few inflammatory soundbytes circulating the web. It doesn't occur to you that a few soundbytes may not be sufficient to judge the entire body of Wright's life work. It doesn't occur to you that the picture painted by these soundbytes may be narrow in perspective.
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
Finally, it's shocking that the SAME people, who defend Ann Coulter's hatred, are now the VERY SAME condemning Obama--not for his own racist comments, but for being too slow to distance himself from the comments made by another. Where was your outrage when:
1) Pat Robertson, who regularly spouts homophobic diatribes, endorsed Giuliani.
2) Jerry Falwell, who called 9/11 an act of divine punishment on homosexuals, endorsed Huckabee.
3) Ann Coulter, whose regular homophobic, bigoted, and antisemitic comments have made her a CELEBRITY on Fox News, defends and endorses Bush.
4) George Allen called Indian journalist S.R. Sidarth "macaca."
5) Mitt Romney and Tony Snow uttered the racially-charged term "tar baby."
6) Bob Jones III, who banned interracial dating at his school and calls Catholicism a "cult," endorsed Romney.
This false outrage reeks of hypocrisy and double standards.
I apologize in advance for the long post, but this needed to be articulated.
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
TANG:
"As I have told you before, you cannot control who endorses you. There is no comparison."
WRONG.
What you say would be true IF these Republican candidates were not simply standing passively by as these bigoted religious conservatives endorsed them. In fact, in EVERY CASE I've cited, Republican politicians (Bush, Giuliani, Romney, Huckabee, etc.) SOUGHT their endorsement because the Evangelical base makes up quite a large and vocal part of the Republican constituency. As such, your Republican heroes are equally culpable--you just hold Republican politicians to a different standard because you agree with their politics.
TANG:
"B.O. was endorsed by louis farrakhan and the New Black Panther Party."
And that somehow makes Obama racist against whites? He's HALF-WHITE HIMSELF, was raised by his white mother after his black father abandoned him, and attended prevalently white Columbia and Harvard Universities. There is no logic and NO EVIDENCE for your accusation.
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
It's clear you took nothing of what I said above and are resistant to challenge your own double standards. If Obama is truly racist, then post a direct quote of Obama uttering racist comments. Post a direct quote of Obama uttering ANY comment that shows he adopted all of Wright's and Farrakhan's beliefs. Go ahead. I'll wait, although something tells me I shouldn't hold my breath.
What's more laughable is that while you condemn Obama (who has NEVER been under investigation for corruption and who has NEVER uttered a racist remark), you give a free pass to McCain who HAS been investigated for corruption (Keating 5) and HAS uttered racist remarks. Where's your righteous outrage now?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm
"McCain told reporters, 'I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.'"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259282,00.html
"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
TANG:
"I'll take falwell over those scumbags anyday."
Suit yourself.
JERRY FALLWELL
http://www.actupny.org/YELL/falwell.html
"FALWELL: I believe that pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays, lesbians, the ACLU, and People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped 9/11 happen.
ROBERTSON: I totally concur."
PAT ROBERTSON
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080695
"The Antichrist is probably a Jew alive in Israel today."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals; the two things seem to go together."
"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist"
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
MORE PAT ROBERTSON:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200706270005
"If [Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."
ANN COULTER
http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_...
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee."
http://www.newsbusters.org/node/13791
"If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.'"
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V120/N13/col13veena.13c...
"GW Bush appeared at Bob Jones University, a non-accredited college known for being racist and anti-Catholic. Bob Jones University has had an official ban on interracial dating for many years. Its justification: 'We stand against the one-world government, against the coming world of anti-Christ, which is a one world system of blending of all differences, of blending of national differences, economic differences, church differences, into a big one ecumenical world.' BJU says it would prefer to keep the races separate."
Your oversimplistic, reductivist approach of "I'll take Falwell over Wright/Farrakhan" not only reveals your partisan double standard, it traps you into embracing Falwell's ideology. I, however, choose NOT to be limited by your false dichotomy and choose to reject the incendiary language of BOTH groups, while recognizing the tremendous amount of good deeds Wright has done for his community.
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slate5 months, 3 weeks ago
I was a member of a church for several years and went maybe a dozen times. He could've gone every single Sunday
I don't know 20 years times 52 'chances' a year to attend, you do the math of the odds he heard what was said or heard through the Church 'family' grapevine what was said. There is no deeper gossip grapevine than in a church community
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
SLATE:
"I don't know 20 years times 52 'chances' a year to attend, you do the math"
Obama joined the Churhc 20 years ago, but wasn't an active member for all 20 years. In fact, for several years, he was away studying law at HLS.
I am not excusing Wright's fiery rhetoric, but if you are genuinely outraged at Jeremiah's Wright's controversial WORDS, how much more outraged would you be if you experienced actual ACTS of racism? What if the racism you experienced (say in the 50's and 60's) were protected by law and there was nothing you could do about it without violating the law?
Injustice understandably breeds anger. Maybe now, you have an inkling of what it feels like and can empathize with Wright's anger.
Welcome to the back of the bus.
P.S. You may want to read John Howard Griffin's "Black Like Me."
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ybdogsct5 months, 3 weeks ago
TANG:
"However B.O. has said that while away at HLS, he listened to tapes of the sermon."
1) That does nothing to refute the Obama's claim that he was not present at the particular sermon recorded and now circulating the web.
2) I'd like to see evidence of this. Post documentation of Obama listening to tapes while he was studying at HLS.
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slate5 months, 3 weeks ago
So Dawg if someone on a different race ever did anything bad to me,,,,, which they have,,,, does that give me the right to hate everyone in that race,,,,, does it give me some sort of pass so I can say ANYTHING I want against them without consequences because of the injustice they did me?
I was raised in a rough section of NE Houston,,,, we had every race there is there,,,, and I've been a 'VICTIM' of racism don't play that yeah but you're a white guy and it's different crap with me.
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ybdogsct5 months, 2 weeks ago
SLATE:
"if someone on a different race ever did anything bad to me,,,,, which they have,,,, does that give me the right to hate everyone in that race"
Once again your reductivist analogies oversimplify. There's a profound distinction between a single act of injustice towards you and SYSTEMIC, LEGISLATED injustice against an entire race of people. As to your analogy, it wouldn't give you the right to hate everyone in that race, but I would understand why you would hate the particular person who "did something bad to you."
Likewise, I don't necessarily condone, but I can understand why Wright would be angry at a government that sanctioned injustice and racism through legislation for so long.
A better analogy would be to compare Wright's suffering to other instances of state-supported discrimination. For example, do German Jews have a right to hate the Nazi party and Nazi-controlled German gov? I would understand why so many would. Would you?
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ybdogsct5 months, 2 weeks ago
From what I understood in your barely comprehensible post, you still are unable to distinguish the difference between a single act of injustice and systemic, legislated injustice. The distinction is not subtle to most reasonably-educated people.
A bully beating up on weaklings such as yourself is NOT analogous to the systemic and legislated injustices African Americans were subjected to. You weren't separated from your family. You weren't forced into a legally-sanctioned lifetime of servitude.
Systemic and legislated injustice breeds anger. Thus, I would understand why Jews would hate the Nazi-controlled government, just as I would understand why 18th-century American colonists hated and revolted against the English crown. Today, these colonists are called "patriots."
Likewise, I can understand the anger of Africans Americans, especially those who personally experienced segregation--and unlike our early American patriots, Wright isn't even calling for a violent revolt.
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Goppy5 months, 3 weeks ago
Klarrissa,
It was, "Catholics are W hores".
Spoken by the man who John McCain fell all over himself to seek an endorsement.
Hey, I should know! As a Christian Conservative, Im in church every week where the paster is castin to hell - libbies, jews, catholics, gays, feminists, poeple on welfare.
This is how we Christian Conservatives lives our lives! This is our creed!
WE adore rich white folk, and the legislators who give them their extra special benefits!
I mean, after all, God musta blessed em for bein rich. So we middle class folk should bless em too!
Amen.
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Goppy5 months, 3 weeks ago
Why Droppy!!
How ken you say that?
Im more of a Christian than you are!
Iin fact, I believe im more of a Conservative than you are.
If you are a Christian, then you woundnt be callin everbody that disagress with you a 'liar', 'goebbels', and any of a numerous collection of insults I could find quite easily.
See?
You aint a Christian!
And you CAINT be a Conservative on accounta you support Bush 2. Even lotsa Conservatives on Propeller say he aint Conservative. (Course, we dont liek to admit that in front of libbies - it makes us look pretty ding dang stoopid for supportin him to the bitterest of ends).
No, you obviously dont believe in nuthin but hatin those who dont share your bitter, bitter, narrow, extremely small vision of America.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
You're calling me bitter, Gimpy? You sound like the embittered old sock puppet that you are...tired rhetoric backed up by nothing.
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doggammit5 months, 3 weeks ago
Southern Christian Conservatives are somehow void of racist bigotry? Perhaps in the eyes of other Southern Christian Conservative they are - and that's the name of that incestuous little tune.
On the other hand, those who have been hounded, wounded and martyred by their wolf pack see them for the cowardly, colorless, faceless bunch of social misfits that they are. At one time they chose to hide under sheets and burn crosses. Now they dress in Gucci, cut deals with presidential candidates and pretend to do the Lord's work. Oh, how the fallen are now mighty! - i.e. mighty ignorant...
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scott42615 months, 3 weeks ago
"Southern Christian Conservatives are somehow void of racist bigotry?"
Yeah. That's a hoot, isn't it?
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
What a bigoted rant you are making, appealing to stereortypes. The irony is that it is done in the process of calling others bigots.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 2 weeks ago
What has he stood for...besides a vague reference to "change"?
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin5 months, 3 weeks ago
what obscenities?
to 'damn' something is to condemn it
As in, 'Some are damned to a life of poverty' or 'why are we damning Obama for something he never said or did?
In the quotes I wasn't aware that Wright used any obscene words
This is precisely how stupid this whole thing is
'Goddamn America' a swear word
'God damn America' no swear word
check out one of the definitions for 'damn':
b: to condemn as a failure by public criticism
same old same old, for some reason we aren't allowed to criticize America, like America is some infallible deity.
If America goes to war, its always right. If America fails a segment of the population and causes them to struggle thru discriminatory practices, well that's OK too.
Mustn't bring it up. Mutsn't talk about it
God Bless America, the Holy and Just. Kneel before Her
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Wright also makes crude sexual references in sermons. I find that unbelievable. Listen to more of his sermons and you'll hear much more than the one sermon to which you are referring.
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PapaWolf5 months, 3 weeks ago
>>Wright also makes crude sexual references in sermons. I find that unbelievable. Listen to more of his sermons and you'll hear much more than the one sermon to which you are referring.
First, if he's making such terrible statements in his sermons that you can't bare to listen, how do you know he's making them?
Second, feel free to post any & all of his sermons here so we can see what's so obscene that it makes you blush.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
You haven't heard the clip where he accused Bill Clinton of "ridin' us dirty like he did Monica Lewinsky"? That's just one example. Apparently, you need to listen to more of his sermons.
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PapaWolf5 months, 3 weeks ago
Hey. If you've been screwed over, you've been screwed over. How else would you like him to describe it? He COULD have used more graphic & descriptive language.
So how can you condemn a whole congregation, or 1 man in the congregation, for EVERYTHING a preacher says? My church is so diverse, we could start our own congress. We have Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Anarchists, Corporatists, & more. The preacher's role is to guide us SPIRITUALLY, not politically. If he sees something the church deems morally wrong, then he should say something about it.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Exactly, a minister should behave like someone concerned with spirituality. I think that a minister should use more appropriate language in front of a congregation. Making a sexual jesture and a crude reference is inappropriate and lacks any spiritually edifying content. He really should have avoided such an overtly political subject anyhow since attacking or endorsing individual political candidates violates IRS guidelines.
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tchef5 months, 3 weeks ago
That's the problem, these are just clips your hearing. You aren't even considering what events inspired these sermons. You don't have a complete picture. Only snippets. Did you listen to Obama's speech yesterday, or only the portions played by the likes of Rush and Anne Coulter? You want to talk about hate speech, there's two who have spewed plenty of it.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
The entire sermon doesn't change the fact that he uses course language , racial stereotypes, and crude imagery in the course of sermons.
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DropkickaLib5 months, 3 weeks ago
Good thing he isn't a minister, ostensively preaching the gospel, isn't it?
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cushi5 months, 3 weeks ago
I took the time to post all the definitions of the word, "damn" on an earlier post last week. It fell on deaf ears because these people do not really car about anything except bringing Obama down...by any means necessary! They are full of it and no amount of trying to reason with them is going to do a tinker's damn worth of good. They are on a mission: Attack and destroy! Full of self righteous ****** and vinegar!
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin5 months, 3 weeks ago
Teats mean something different. I don't think 'teat' covers the whole breast, does it?
I mean most of the time they don't
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