Politics – If you have any doubts that 9/11 was used by the Bush cabal as a pretext for attacking Iraq -- if you have any doubts how many mistakes Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al made -- if you have any doubts how many lies were told, how many laws were broken, how many un-Constitutional decisions were made -- this two part, exhaustive two-part Frontline, 7
There were no "mistakes" - they were very well-planned, calculated steps and moves and manipulations to get what they wanted, an invasion of Iraq.
They did NOT care who suffered or died or who was cast aside in their quest to get into Iraq and get control of that oil and to PROFIT from their "war".
Evil -- it is all nothing short of EVIL, what the Bush administration has done to the country of Iraq and to this country.
I can point out three glaring mistakes without thinking hard:
1) Pulling the Army and Marine ground forces out of Afghanistan precipitously, to prepare for the unneeded invasion of Iraq. Huge, unrecognized (at the time) error that allowed the Taliban and al Qaeda forces to escape (after Tora Bora) into northern Pakistan, where they've reconstituted and are launching attacks to this day.
2) At the start of the Iraq war, the mistaken effort to bring the 4th Infantry Division through Turkey, which the Turks in an effort to show their independence, prohibited at the last minute. It took a full month to bring them around to Kuwait, at which time they were desperately needed to shore up the supply line to Baghdad (anyone remember the attacks that resulted in the capture of Jessica Lind, and the US troops reduced to two K-rations a day?).
3) Powell making the speech about chemical weapons at the UN. Even he recognizes it as the greatest error of his entire career.
I understand how those points are noted as "mistakes".
I'll grant that #2 probably was a mistake, or a mis-calculation on what they thought was a good 'plan'.
For the other 2, it was intentional. Stupid, as most with any sense already know, but nevertheless those events were calculated.
Powell very likely believes that he did make a mistake. But, the administration knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they filled his head with that "intelligence" so that he could 'make their case' for them to the U.N.
Agreed. Bush needs bin Laden alive and well as a fear mongering agent. Bin Laden's escape at Tora Bora was no accident.
He is the rough equivalent of 1984's Goldstein. An unseen but supposedly extremely insidious enemy. Lest we forget the man likely lives in a cave in one of the most remote areas of our planet. "Fear mongering agent" is an excellent description. He is a necessary tool in the neocon bag of tricks.
I have often made the proposal that they allowed him to escape. He gave them the one thing they could not buy - an excuse - their "New Pearl Harbor". The neocons had mentioned this specifically. Without Bin Laden the invasion of Iraq would never have happened. Despite Cheney's total disregard for public approval the Congressional will simply was not there. The funding would not have been approved.
bubba2:
Turkey wasn't about to let us move troops thru their country. That would have been tantamount to having an American presence in Turkey up to this day. We would have had the excuse that they allowed us to stage troops thru them before.
I think Bush, Cheney and the other mucked up dim wits screwed up there.
Just my opinion though.
Bubba:
#2, the failure to put the 4th Division through Turkey, counts as three or four mistakes all in one. The failure to properly work diplomatically with Turkey, the failed assessment for the need, more porperly the lack of a need, for boots on the ground in Kurdish Iraq (where, with minimal US ground troops we've managed to create the ONLY peaceful section of Iraq, BTW), the failure to provide enough military support for the logistics train from Kuwait to Baghdad -- this was one huge FUBAR, and almost doomed the entire operation.
Imagine, US troops down to 2 meals a day, no fresh water, low on ammo, and supply convoys picked off like sitting ducks! Most military experts will agree, we came close to screwing the pooch right there.
But I agree, Bubba, these were all part of a well orchestrated plan by Chickenhawks in the Bush cabal who thought they knew better than the generals and diplomats far senior in experience and talent then they.
Five years later and we're still paying.
The Cheney/Bush administration has overthrown the government and most Americans are pretending that it still belongs to us. This administration does whatever it wants and answers to no one; and that is what is known as a dictatorship.
I beg to differ only slightly: they have yet to subvert the transition to a Democratic congress, though the Republican party has done its best to slow the Senate to a grinding halt with their filibusters, real and threatened.
I've no doubt that there are even more hideous acts they've committed and attempted to commit that most of us are unaware of. Take a long, hard look at the Air Force officer revolt -- it could only be described as that when 70-plus officers are moved to oppose a series of top-down orders -- in September '07 when six nuclear warheads "accidentally" flew across country, on the same weekend that Cheney was in Portland for a wargame exploring what might happen if a nuclear weapon was detonated near an American port.
Funny thing: one of those six nukes went missing during the nine hours that that B-52 sat on the Louisiana tarmac. Never been found, to this day.
Somebody cue the Darth Vadar theme.
I have no doubt that plans to invade Iraq even pre-dated 9/11, same for the Patriot Act. I don't believe that 9/11 was the precursor for either. It's my belief that plans for both were in the works and that 9/11 was the necessary catalyst.
Yes, the evidence suggests there were plans afoot to invade Iraq (and occupy it) in the Veep's office almost from Day One. Heck, those plans likely originated at the same time as the Neocon's Plan for the New American Century. That's been in the works since Bush '41 in 1991, where not invading Iraq was seen by many of the same Chickenhawks (especially Perle and Cheney) as a huge error.
The Plan was unveiled in its complete state in 1997, along with the concept of the need for a "new Pearl Harbor." Well, they got part of their plan right: no rational person believes our own government had anything to do with 9/11, right?
Paint me as irrational, then.
While the stated mission of PNAC was to ensure the place of the US sole global superpower Iraq was in the gunsights from the start. Something about the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world. Cheney was never pleased with the decision to stop the advance to Baghdad in GW1.
Oddly the PNAC group has actually succeeded in massively weakening our international position. We have very few trusted allies, we are in tremendous debt to our greatest economic rivals and through our borrowing from the Chinese have greatly increased the strength of our #1 rival for superpower status. A literal disaster. Yet these men (including McCain, not an official PNAC member) ask the American people for more time to implement their failed strategy, and Cheney simply doesn't care about the opinion off the people. Amazing that some 40% are ready and willing to be duped again.
Watched part 1 last night. One thing it made VERY obvious is that W really is the dupe moron we suspected, and it was Cheney and Rumsfeld acting on behalf of Halliburton that were manipulating for the Iraq invasion, and Powell, with Rice, were trying to stop it. Cheney and Rumsfeld had the POTUS' ear and had cut off contact to him for Powell so thoroughly that he couldn't even talk to him without getting a meeting scheduled through Rummy's office. The whole thing was pure Machiavellian manipulation by Cheney and Rummy.
It is certainly starting to look like whoever is the next President of the US is going to have to decide whether they (Cheney and Rumsfeld) will be voluntarily remanded to the Hague for war crimes trials or not.
So Cheney and Rumsfeld can't afford to allow a normal election. To stay out of the Hague,they must stay in office. Therefore, there must be another terrorist attack, and an emergency government declared.
It might be worth it to let the scum bags retire peacefully. They can still make a lot of trouble.
"All the recommendations that we were making now in the Phase IV part weren't being taken -- weren't being taken by Bremer or Rumsfeld," DeLong tells FRONTLINE. "That's when Franks said, 'I'm done.' They said, 'Well, you'll be chief of staff of the Army.' He said, 'No, I'm done.'"
This pretty much sums up just about everything within the Bush administration.....and it's still continuing
saw the first half last night.
brilliant. every American should see it.
And every con should see it twice!
That's why their cons. They don't watch this stuff. Saw much of the first part. All they are doing is reviewing the facts. You know - what actually happened. That's a little hard for these people to watch in hindsight. You see the process by which a relatively small group of men made the decision that we begin a pre-emptive war and lauch a military operation of which we have only thankfully seen the tip. If not for the massive failure in Iraq we would have long moved on Iran and would be eyeballing other potential areas for strikes. Of course we would get bogged down in Iran as well, much worse that Iraq. That is the fallacy of this neocon idealogy. Their ideas don't work. Just as with communism - in a vacuum, or in the planning stage, it may seem workable but in reality it becomes a huge dissapointment. Both idealogies should be consigned to the waste dump of history as failures.
I didn't see one argument on this thread.Why?
if you want to find supporters of this president, his administration, and his failed policies you have to wade deep into the waters of conservative blogs like RedState.com where Bush and Co. can do no wrong and the war in Iraq is still considered a triumph in the making. I suggest all of us visit the site to remind us that there still exists a visceral and venomous wing of the Republican party.
I tried commenting on this site and was banned in less than 48 hours. In forums like Propeller where opinions are equally valued and the fight is fair there is little if any discussion from the right because they know they are wrong on both the merits and the logic of their argument.
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34)
Vote
Continued: This two part, exhaustive two-part Frontline, 7 years in the making, with over 400 interviews, should dispel them all.
This is an expansive website, with links to watch both episodes online (the first was broadcast on March 24th, with Pt. 2 scheduled for March 31st), as well as links to interviews with all the major players (CIA, State Department, Pentagon and from within the Bush administration itself).
It covers the false evidence that was used, from phony evidence postulated by the Iraqi National Conference to Cheney's office and the evil NeoCon triad of the American Enterprise Institute (headed by Richard Perle), the Defense Policy Board (Perle again), and Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith.
If you want confirmation for every doubt, fear, hatred and loathing for the administration that's done more damage to this country, our reputation around the world and our own Constitution than any terrorist organization, this, my friends, is the motherload.
I make one promise: I will answer anyone who emails me or pmails me and requests a straightforward, accurate debate on the program and the issues it raises. All honest critics will be rewarded with facts and evidence; all blind, ignorant (of the facts) followers will be ignored.
I make only one request: watch the episode before you try and defend these criminals. Watch the interviews with career CIA, Pentagon and State employees, many of them die-hard Republican before they opened their eyes to the evil this administration spread like crap across every field they came across.
Then, and only then, will you be ready to understand the depths these people have sunk to, and the depths they have dragged us down as well.
Be ready for an amazing, difficult to stomach, heart-wrenching story of power mad lunatics (ie: those possessed by the moon), and the honest efforts of their opponents to knock some sense into them, almost 100% ignored.
I'll post some useful outtakes from the show later.
One small correction: locally (in the Midwest at least), the second episode is scheduled for Tuesday, March 25th. But check your local PBS stations, or just view it online.
Best evidence for the need for a free and unpoliticized PBS there ever was.