Politics – Barack Obama has a political "problem" with national security which is kind of like saying Howard Dean has a "problem" with voice modulation. Obama, of course, has no foreign policy training or experience (not to mention no record of military service), yet he wants to have tea with the world's dictators.
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"Obama and his sidekick DNC Chairman Howard Dean thought they had a great idea: try to play some gotcha, sound bite politics on Iraq. After all, the press wouldn't notice or care if they fuzzed up the facts, right?
Things started out well for them. They spotted a response by John McCain to a question from a New Hampshire voter as to whether he agreed with President Bush that troops might be in Iraq for 50 years.
McCain said:
"Make it a hundred. We've been in Japan for 60 years, we've been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That'd be fine with me as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That's fine with me. I hope it will be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping, and motivating people every single day."
Im tryin to toe the Conservative line here OmegaGnosis, but Im havein an aweful tiem followin your parsin.
So, by bein in Iraq for the next hundert years AINT liek bein in Iraq for 100 years ... HOW?
Wait, I think Im followin ya!
IF things calm down,
IF the Sunnies and Sheites and Kurds all decide to come together (like Neo-Cons and Liburals I spose) .. and
IF Iran dont insert themselfs into the mix, and
IF it dont get above 110 degrees in the summer, and
IF there aint no more BlackWater murders and
IF the entire Musllim world decides to embrace democracy, ...
THEN ...
Our presence in that country will seem ... not so much liek an occupation ... but just your regular, run of the BILLION dollor a year occupation.
WHEW!!!
I think Im with ya now.
But I still think your take on John McCAin ... that 100 years aint really 100 years is kinda liek sayin Warren Jeffs is really a fine patriarch.
Dems Caught in the '100 Year War' Fib. Everyone lies, it's just politicians make a living doing it. Lies are like children: they're hard work, but it's worth it because the future depends on them.
I see your point.
Cept, in this case, Dems dont seem to be lyin.
What it really seems liek, is more Fuzzy Math from our Conservative Media Machine.
We got to face it. Our John McCain is a loose cannon. hE shoots from the hip. Our SPIN DOCTORS are gointa be workin full tiem with this fellow.
I mean, after all, the man IS 72!
"Dems dont seem to be lyin."
Only in your little liberal candyland Poopy.
ROFLMAO, actually it appears you;'ve been swallowing lies for 8 years and spinning like a top to find an angle most would accept. So it fairly understandable how its difficult for you to hear the truth and not expect a lie. Not to worry, after Obama wins in Nov telling the truth will be the norm.
Amen, dunkirk!!!
Your profile comments are most timely:
"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." -George McGovern
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix"
Don't expect SpinDave to get it, though......
Goppy - I think you are a very intelligent guy with some really good, progressive ideas, but you are no Will Rodgers or Cliff Arquette & your schtick is wearing thin.
Time for a new personna in a very serious time for our country.
Funny, I was just thinkin the very samem thing bout you acey!
Cept, instead of Will Rogers, I was thinkin you were immulatin Andy Dice Clay.
Oh well, loud n angry is the face of the Ne0-ConServative.
Remember Newty Gingrish?
Bravissimo!
$@!@!$%%!@@~! Goppy - you finally got me!! after one year of being called a @$%@#$%!#$%^^Y leftist & @$@#@!$2 Commie & any other epithets the neocons could throw at me You have finally found me out I'm a @!%#%@#@^%#$ NeO-ConServative in a liberals' sack cloth.
Another mutha@%#@!#%$ con amongst the sheep.
Heyyyyyyyyyy guess I should bend over & kiss Obama's $@#!$@#$ then maybe I'd be accepted back in the fold
Where exactly did he lie. Crummy conservative junk blog, RNC and alpha posted claims so... this must be right? After all alpha is never wrong?
Here is what obama said:
"John McCain was wrong about the war from the beginning, he's wrong to call for more resources in Iraq while the American people are struggling, and he's wrong to support a 100-year occupation of a country that needs to take responsibility for its own future,".
Obama at no point suggested what McCains comment was/ or wasn't about. And one have to be an idiot to think our forces could be in Iraq an not in the harms way. How did RNC/McInsane figured that one out.
McCain go back to that Iraq;s street market w/o battalions protection see how long you will last...
That is correct, BROWNTIGER. What ALPHAGNOSSIS further fails to realize is that:
1) Republicans trumpet the value of experience only when it suits them. Where was this concern for experience when veteran John Kerry campaigned against absentee GW Bush and draft-dodger Dick Cheney? Their partisan double standards are laughable.
2) The underlying assumption of this argument is that experience breeds wisdom. This is NOT necessarily the case. After all Cheney an Rumsfeld were considered to be among the most "experienced," yet even Bush and McCain admit the Iraq occupation was ill-planned and poorly-executed.
3) As far as wisdom is concerned, Obama wins hands down. After all, Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and HLS. Obama was nominated to be the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Obama taught Constitutional Law and accepted cases fighting for civil rights and against poverty. Obama had the wisdom to oppose the Iraq war from the beginning.
Meanwhile John McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class. McCain's repeated gaffes also reveal a lack of understanding and oversimplification of the geopolitical complexities of the Middle East. It appears McCain has learned little from all his "experience."
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_r...
"McCain's grades were 'marginal.' He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958."
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...
"Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents. Robert Timberg wrote that McCain's 'performance was below par, at best good enough to get by.'"
ybhdogot - I'm no fan of McCain but let's put some things you said in perspective - U.S. Grant graduated in the bottom of his class at West Point - Robt E Lee at the top - Grant did a pretty good job during the Civil War. But had did sort of screw up as Pres.
50% of all doctors graduate at the bottom of their class, where did yours?
One of those planes McCain lost was aboard the Forrestal during that terrible accident,no fault of his own.
McCain was the longest guest at the Hanoi Hilton but stayed true to the U.S.
Now today there is talk of McCain taking Condie Rice as his VP - the repugs are covering all the bases - seniors,Blacks, women, fundies, on & on - the only ones they are missing the boat on is the vast majority of Patriotic Americans who want to live in peace & realixe the American dream
You know, you are askin for ybhdoggy to give the same kinda rational consideration that we Conservatives REFUSE to give to Obama ... for somethin he dint even SAY!
We Conservatives are kinda weird that way.
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn't mean McCain was one of those exceptions. For every successful Westpoint Goat you can name, I can name more who were failures. For example, George Custer was a "Westpoint Goat."
Grant's performance during the Civil War was mixed. True, he was effective against Lee, but he was also far better armed and manned than Lee's army. His strategic maneuvers cost thousands of Union lives. Had his soldiers not outnumbered Lee's, I'm not sure Grant would have been effective.
Lastly, you neglect the fact that McCain's poor academic performance was presented against the backdrop of RECENT gaffes about Iraq, Iran, and complex geopolitical issues in the Middle East--which reveal a overarching PATTERN of oversimplistic thought and shoddy analysis. McCain might be someone you'd want in your foxhole, but his oversimplistic thought-process demonstrates you would not want him leading an army.
yb - you are spending a lot of time putting down McCain for my edification, but you seem to miss one point - I DON'T SUPPORT HIM! - if you had bothered to check out many of my previous comments I have never supported McCains bid. I do however, think he should just fly off into the sunset with Obama as a passenger while Hillary takes care of the real business at hand.
BTW - IQ is a very arbitrary indicator & has come under increased scrutiny lately. Most IQ tests really test one's ability to be sucessful with multiple choice teasts.
ACES:
"you are spending a lot of time putting down McCain for my edification, but you seem to miss one point - I DON'T SUPPORT HIM! - if you had bothered to check out many of my previous comments."
I am aware of your independent leanings, I know you don't support McCain, and nowhere in my previous post did I direct an ad hominem attack on you. Relax. You sound awfully defensive considering no one has attacked you.
Likewise, it is NOT my intent to "put down McCain," but rather to offer my critique of McCain's candidacy through dispassionate discourse and data-supported logic. The fact is that I don't mind having McCain as my 3rd choice. The Republicans certainly could have done much worse. However, just because McCain is an acceptable 3rd choice does not mean I will hesitate to draw contrasts between McCain and Obama, or McCain and Clinton.
After all, although McCain is a satisfactory 3rd choice for the presidency, I would still prefer Obama or Hillary over him.
ACES:
"BTW - IQ is a very arbitrary indicator & has come under increased scrutiny lately. Most IQ tests really test one's ability to be sucessful with multiple choice teasts."
Yes, I misspoke. I should have used the term "intellect" instead if IQ. You are, of course, correct about the shortcomings of IQ tests, but your point is moot anyway because neither the MCAT nor GPA measures IQ.
The fact remains that students accepted to medical school represent the top of their classes. Even the "50% of doctors who graduate at the bottom of their classes" had to have scored in the 90th percentile on both the MCAT and GPA to be even admitted to medical school in the first place. And those of us pursuing combined MD/PhD degrees likely scored even higher (98-99th percentile).
Yb - we're cool --but these back & forths show how passionate things can become even between like- minded people.
Further more the statement that 50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class is just a facetious statement & doesn't really required the discussion being spent on it
ACES:
"50% of all doctors graduate at the bottom of their class, where did yours?"
Well, considering that the average medical student scored within the top 90th percentile on the MCAT and is within the top 90th percentile in terms of GPA, I'd say that my doctor (and yours too) probably ranks somewhere around the 90th percentile (or higher) in IQ.
ACES:
"One of those planes McCain lost was aboard the Forrestal during that terrible accident,no fault of his own."
McCain crashed 5 planes--4 by accident. You've accounted for 1.
But America loves idiots..Look who's there now!
That way the real policy makers and shakers can manipulate their next puppet to be a front man for their selfish needs. Just watch what fool he is forced to take as a VP.
They are evil and Americans are stupid*, it's a very scary combination.
*Their continued efforts to deteriorate our public schools
and keep the grey states uneducated is all they need.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/04/100_...
"The problem with John McCain's 100 years in Iraq formulation isn't that he's calling for 95 more years of combat--he isn't--but that he thinks you can have a long-term basing arrangement in Iraq similar to those we have in Germany or Korea. That betrays a fairly acute lack of knowledge about both Iraq and Islam. Iraq is--and has always been--volatile, tenuous, centrally-located and nearly as sensitive to the presence of infidels as Saudi Arabia. It is a terrible candidate for a long-term basing agreement. McCain's carelessness and oversimplification, and wrong analysis, when it comes to the situation in Iraq puts him in a surprisingly vulnerable position."
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicaltick...
"When McCain was asked if there is a plan to attack Iran, McCain sang. 'Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.'"
McCain also assumes (or wants us to assume) that 1) the US will be solvent enough in 60 years to support a military, and/or that 2) China will permit the US to maintain a military presence in Iraq.
Things ain't gonna remain the way they are, people.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/19/mccain-...
"Sen. John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting, mistakenly said Tuesday that Iran was allowing Al Qaeda fighters into the country to be trained and returned to Iraq. After Sen. Joe Lieberman stepped forward to whisper in the candidate's ear, McCain said: 'I'm sorry; the Iranians are training the extremists, not Al Qaeda. Not Al Qaeda. I'm sorry.'"
http://www.suntimes.com/news/novak/856289,CST-E...
"Even before Sen. John McCain got mixed up, Republican insiders felt he was in the wrong place at the wrong time on his visit to the war zone.
GOP critics disapproved of McCain even making the trip to Iraq. They felt that no political purpose was served by the prospective Republican presidential nominee going halfway around the world to praise President Bush's troop surge."
WOW!
An encyclopedic compendium of reasons to not vote for McCain.
Course, all the Republicans on Popeiller been sayin the same thing for years. Many on this thread even have labeled him a RINO - (Republican in Name Only.)
Up until Romney bowed out - the Right HATED McCain.
ITS WORSE!
In 2000, the Right preferred a draft dogin, cocaine imbibin, recoverin alcoholic over McCain!
Now, after all that, we Conservatives are supportin ... John McCain.
Im just sayin.
How can you call him 'recoverin'? He never even attempted the 12 Steps, he just praised Jaysus and quit cold turkey, and THAT ain't recoverin'!
(but I applaud the spirit (no pun intended) of your post)
Best of luck to repukes, trying to spin Iraq sh!thole into something positive.
The fact remains, if Zurge was working last summer any benefits of it are gone buy now. Our enemies adopted. Last month 600 IED exploded in Iraq.
Our presents in Japan was not nearly 140,000 troops. US is now bankrupt and facing fiscal problem. Puring money to make dumbo W look better is insane. Iraq's goverment not passing any reforms and at the deadlock on most issues.
Feel free to spin that.
That's ok, you amnesty supporting alqeadacrats can cry about how the war is bankrupting us all you want and we will laugh at you because we know that the illegals cost us more a year than Iraq has so far. Illegals also kill 9125 Americans every year according to the FBI stats that came out last summer. It's really a damn shame that you libtards can't get your priorities in order.
TANGLANG:
"you amnesty supporting alqeadacrats can cry"
It's laughable you would slur Democrats as aiding al Qaeda, when, in fact, of the two major parties only a REPUBLICAN has been formally indicted for actually aiding Al Qaeda.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323250,00.html
"Mark Deli Siljander, a Michigan Republican, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about being hired to lobby senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.
The 42-count indictment accuses the Islamic American Relief Agency of paying Siljander $50,000 for the lobbying -- money that turned out to be stolen from the U.S. Agency for International Development.
Siljander, who served in the House from 1981-1987, was appointed by President Reagan to serve as a U.S. delegate to the United Nations"
LOL. Time for you to get your facts straight.
Pathetic.
ROFLMAO, yb ya gotta understand, Tang is you typical run of the mill right wing shill on here always talking the tough line always supporting the idiocy of the administration UNTIL you tell him to go enlist and fight his war first hand. Ya then get the list of excuses as to why HE can't fight. He was christened General Beauregard Chickenhawk bedecked in the fancy uniform but lacking any true substance.
Dunny, We all know when one of your comments is going to be nothing but bullsht the second we see "ROFLMAO" at the beginning of it.
Perhaps you have brain damage from always falling to the floor or something. Who knows?
Yb, Your link (Once again!!!) proves absolutely nothing. So one douchebag with an "R" next to his name turned out to be a traitor. What does that prove when al qeada, hamas, hezbollah and so on have in the past said that they think we should elect Kerry, Hillary, Obama and so on? Not to mention the fact that it's you libs that want us to stop fighting them. It's your liberal ACLU that says we need to aquiesce to them over here. It's the liberal groups like nion, now, code pink, move on and such that call our Generals traitors.
Then there is also the fact that the only reason I called you guys alqeadacrats ad libtards is because you all loved browntigers comment where he said "repukes".
TANG:
"Your link (Once again!!!) proves absolutely nothing."
Those are strong words for someone who NEVER provides supporting evidence for his arguments--this post INCLUDED. It's laughable you would attack my sources while being too lazy or inept to provide counter-sources of your own.
TANG:
"What does that prove when al qeada, hamas, hezbollah and so on have in the past said that they think we should elect Kerry, Hillary, Obama and so on?"
Prove it. Cite multiple sources of an Osama Bin Ladin videotape urging Americans to vote for Kerry, Hillary, or Obama. Go ahead. I'll wait for your evidence, although something tells me I shouldn't hold my breath. In the meantime, here's some counterevidence:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139060,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4222647.stm
"Osama Bin Laden's video, shown days before the vote, urged Americans to back neither Mr Bush nor Mr Kerry."
Another unsupported argument from TANG. How expected.
TANG:
"Not to mention the fact that it's you libs that want us to stop fighting them."
Not true. Rest assured that I will not stop you if you want to "fight them." In fact, let me know when you are enlisting and deploying to the Middle East. I'll even help pack your bags.
Something tells me, though, you're simply going to come up with another excuse why you can't go personally and why someone else has to go in your place. These excuses accomplish nothing except to expose you for the chickenhawk you are.
TANG:
"Then there is also the fact that the only reason I called you guys alqeadacrats ad libtards is because you all loved browntigers comment where he said "repukes"."
Is that so? Then quote the portion of MY post where I praised BROWNTIGER for his use of the term "repuke." Go ahead. Quote MY exact words back to me.
"It's really a damn shame that you libtards can't get your priorities in order."
I'm sorry, who has been in charge of ENFORCEMENT for the last eight years?
Someone who was either out to lunch or out for lunch.
"I'm sorry, who has been in charge of ENFORCEMENT for the last eight years?"
The governers of the states the illegals crossed over.
Wow most of them are REPUBLICANS, must have been too busy taking payouts I guess and trying to get a piece of Dumyas 700 mile fence blocking a 2100 mile border. (Hmmmmmm even for fuzzy math 2100 just has to be bigger then 700, right?)
The liberals at the American Criminal Latino Union who sue the local, state or federal enforcement agencies everytime they try to enforce the laws are the biggest part of the problem. Reagen, Bush, Clinton and W are all to blame too. The only difference here is, conservatives at least tried to elect candidates this year who want to stop the invasion once and for all. Dems on the other hand have clinton and BO who want to give these invaders even more tax payer funded social services.
I say we need to stop the invasion and solve this problem once and for all instead of bickering about who is to blame. Especially since the honest answer is that were are all to blame for not stopping the invasion ourselves.
Didn't they hate the guy as recently as 30 days ago??
I know they thought he was a satanic liberal on Super Tuesday.
Now they love him??
Boy, how are the winds blowing this week??
I think their opinions on candidates is determined by the same dart board on why we should go into Iraq.
Upper board: WMD's (miss)
Middle board: Uranium (miss)
Lower board: To free the poor Iraquis so they can throw us parades in the street (miss)
Bullseye: To fund the ENTIRE effort with Iraqui oil..(miss)
Extra points: Oil prices will be stable or even go under $2.00: (BIG miss) oil prices have DOUBLED
Double points: Let's nominate Romney (miss)
End result: Let's nominate "100 years" McCain,
he's our man (miss)
This is our reward for a $3trillion "liberation"?
Next time don't let the blind throw your darts!
These people have their head screwed on backwards.
They don't even see or smell the trail of SHIIIT they have
dumped on us!!
"These people have their head screwed on backwards."
No, these people are simply the biggest criminals since c. 1933.
McCain should certainly realize that his stupid statement about ...maintaining a presence in every part of the world where Al Qaeda is training... was, at best a slip of the tongue.
For supporters such as yourself to repeat this slip of the tongue and restate this as good policy is just crazy.
---Most of Al Qaeda is, as I'm sure that McCain knows, in parts of the world where we have NO troops and NO intention of invading (i.e. Pakistan and Indonesia).
---Al Qaeda-Iraq is, as I'm sure that McCain knows, a very small group (a couple thousand?) which has remained about constant in size since the invasion. We can not possibly maintain a military presence in each country that has a couple thousand people with whom we disagree.
Ah, but we CAN revoke the Constitution and its LAWS and protections and turn this into a totalitarian state where we can all feel safe, and free to buy all the SUV's we desire (but not leave the country without permission)!
>---Most of Al Qaeda is, as I'm sure that McCain knows, in parts of the world where we have NO troops and NO intention of invading (i.e. Pakistan and Indonesia).
The majority of foreign resistance fighters in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia where AQ and the Sunni death squads recruit openly in the streets.
NPR did an interview on the street of people who the recruiters could be heard yelling `death to America` among other things in the background.
Old `100 Years` and the other Lucy`s in the WH have a lot of explaining to do.
as I'm sure that McCain knows
~~~~~~~~~~
Given that he has made the SAME GAFFS over and over again I would NOT be so quick to say "as I'm sure that McCain knows".
Chance are...he actually DOESN'T!
How long does it take to discover such a priceless collection of non-sequiturs, miniature gems of illusion spun from the dross of diseased imaginings and overheated hyperbole?
An achievement indeed to achieve one post more obtuse than the next to feed the hungry gullets and bizarre imaginations of your little flock.
All for a candidate that none of you wanted to touch with a bargepole a few months ago and, as Goppy wisely points out has been already lying in the discard pile for 4 long years.
To imagine him getting elected you'd need to believe in reincarnation.
Dontcha love all the libs who hold the free exchange of ideas so dear to their hearts who voted to sink this article.
Using this post to refute the repugs is a much better way than sinking it.
All you who voted to sink are no different than the cons you take to task
Exchange of ideas is fine. Doesn't mean you have to agree with every one that crosses your path or that you have to vote favorably for it when you disagree.