100 years to recover from Bush »
Posted by: jovial 2 months, 3 weeks ago415 Comments Report this Story
It will take the United States a century to recover from the damage wreaked by President George. W Bush, US writer Gore Vidal said in an interview published on Saturday.
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jovial2 months, 3 weeks ago
A pretty damning statement. Is this author off the mark, way far off, or somewhere in the middle?
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Neophile2 months, 3 weeks ago
Here's the full interview translated from Spanish:
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&t...
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santa02 months, 3 weeks ago
i can't get the story for some reason... but based off the title, it sounds a little extreme. FDR took us from hoovervilles to defeating the german industrial war machine and into the middle class boom of the 50's. good leadership, good policies, and little luck and we'll be back on top. maybe that's blind patriotism, but i believe it.
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rightfromwrong2 months, 3 weeks ago
U must be on drugs jovial....America will never be on top again.The Bilderbergs are on top. The Jewish zog control everything. Bush,Clintons,Kissenger and many others are all part of the scheme. There can be little doubt they had the Kennedies killed as they were against secret societies.
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hyperbola2 months, 3 weeks ago
Automated translations are still deficient. If you can read the interview in spanish.
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/06/14/intern...
By the way, El Mundo is the largest of the "right-wing" newspapers in Spain.
Can you imagine a "right-wing" newspaper in the US (say the Wall Street Journal) publishing this kind of interview? Might give you an idea of the degree of self-censorship in the american corporate media.
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cowboygrandpa2 months, 3 weeks ago
hyperbola:
When you don't insert the hateful rhetoric you come across very well.
Thanks.
You are quite right. The self censorship in America is tied to corporate interests.
Our nation reminds me of the old Rome more and more daily. Corrupted and crumbling from the abusive political power wielded by those looking to build personal fortune at the cost of our nation.
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TheRealizer2 months, 3 weeks ago
Washington D C is a giant revolving door, people go from legislative and White House jobs to lobbying firms then to jobs in the military supply business. The military procurement folks go from there to the boards of the firms they bought from. It reeks of corruption on a GRAND scale!!
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Teech2 months, 3 weeks ago
Being the optimist, perhaps only 50 years to dig out of this mess.
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BLO2L2 months, 3 weeks ago
Everybody is worth listening to. Like the famous quote, "I may not agree with what you have to say. But I will defend to the death your right to say it." You just have to listen with an open mind and then decide for yourself whether you agree or not. But by all means keep an open mind. I have found more than once that my beliefs may be based on outdated or inaccurate information. "Variety is the spice of life". Let others have their opinion, and their beliefs. As long as they don't impose or constrain your beliefs, they only add more color to the picture.
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splitrch2 months, 3 weeks ago
Just look at Cheney - from government to board room to government toad for former employer - back to the board to room? If it means he has to move to Bahrain or wherever the hell Haliburton is moving to, I'll help pack his bags.
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gamahuche2 months, 3 weeks ago
Unfortunately it seems that it passed through Chinese on its way to becoming English..
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
Thinking back over the last 8 years, I would've guessed much longer than 100 years. Bush and the GOP have set and broken so many unenviable records. ;-(
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sinophil492 months, 3 weeks ago
jovial - You are right. Gore Vidal is way off the mark.
Our national debt incurred from WWII (1940-1945) was 2.1 trillion dollars. Our government finally paid it off by about 1980 under Pres Carter - a period of 35 yrs.
By the time GWB leaves office, the debt will be about 10 trillion dollars. This 4 times the WWII debt.
So assuming approximately the same average economic growth of the last 35 yrs, the debt will take 4 times the time period to pay off = 35X4 = 140 yrs.
However, considering the devalued dollar, the sky high oil prices, the cost of fighting global warming, the time frame will probably be considerably longer.
Add to that the further cost of the Iraq war. Even if Obama starts the process of withdrawal the day he takes office, the process will still take an additional trillion dollars. My guess is that it will take 150 to 200 yrs to pay off GWB's national debt. Who's to say I'm wrong?
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cushi2 months, 3 weeks ago
Now that is truly depressing...even more depressing, I believe you!
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CHAM2 months, 3 weeks ago
Sino
And lets not forget the "Accrued" ( Long Term Liabilities ) that has shot up during the Bush Administration.
When Bush took office, this type debt stood at $20 Trillion.
By September 1, 2007 it had risen to $53 Trillion-per the Comptroller General of the USA and in his annual report. The next report is due this Sept.
I'll bet that debt will exceed $60 Trillion. How long will it take to pay that back down to $20 Trillion?
Sixty Trillion is 60,000 Billion.
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sinophil492 months, 3 weeks ago
CHAM - Sheesh. Economics has always been one of my weak points. To my everlasting regret, I never took Econ 101 in college, because I thought it would have been boring. All my superficial knowledge is from reading and trying to understand terms and issues on my own.
Now here comes another term I don't understand and I have to cram this into my shrinking brain.
Lord help me!!
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sir_samurai2 months, 3 weeks ago
Wow! 200 years? That's the whole history of America undone; PLUS, 1,000 years of world & civil history - since Habeas Corpus - undone buy none other than that mindless Chimp and hyenas Gremlin in Washington, Bush the Butcher!
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rightfromwrong2 months, 3 weeks ago
America is not growing...only by raping & pillaging countries of their resources is keeping America afloat. U are loosing middle class jobs everyday being replaced by joe jobs like the Walmarts who are parasites!!!!
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
Let's say a billion years if we are going to pull a number out our azz to try and further vilify Bush.
raping & pillaging you say?
So every country in Europe, Asia, as well as most of Africa are raping and pillaging, since they are ahem BUYING the one resource that and otherwise remorseless region of the planet?
Buying, each country, with money, not stolen or raped or pillaged as you claim with little more fact than you just think that's what's happening.
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Goppy2 months, 3 weeks ago
LOL!!!
Thanks tangy! You REALLY expressed our Right Wing POV that tiem.
You are right ... on so many levels.
When we got somebody in charge, such as GW, to who we have given over our complete trust and adulation, EVERYTHING - is what it is!
And we are happy to turn a complete blind eye to whatever transpires. And you are one of the best at that.
But let a presdient who represents a political point of view which we RESENT ... which we consider evil (even though we dont know why) ... well ... we work to undermine that.
Remember, we are Christian Conservatives. What that means is that our Conservatism is a Religion ... And our Christianity is our Politics.
AND
Rational Comparin and Contrastin are against our Moral Code.
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
'i take it you two fools think everything's just fine'
No we don't but your foolish zeal of making these wild eyed claims is worthy of us making fun of you.
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
Fools like you dissent gleefully believe every bad prediction you hear, it bolsters your claim that Republicans are evil and democrats are saints. Me thinks you need to consider that there have been TWO parties at work since the 1800s and both parties have guided us to where we are today,,, not one good and virtuous party (usually the one you vote for) and one bad/evil one, your opponent. They are Both good and both bad, and in the end they have the same goals (government power). If this is not true, then why are we still kicking around the same broken things for more than 50 years now? Because one party is really really trying and the other is holding them back? Surely even you aren't that naïve?
Anyone that actually buys into the argument that Democrats are for the country and Republicans are not OR vise Versa, those are the true fools involved in this political discourse.
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
I've said it enough times that things aren't fine, so I won't be playing that silly game. The point is you guys pull these numbers out and throw them on the wall and dance around your hate Bush bonfire,,,,, so then I come in and make fun of your false pretense of knowing how long it will take to 'cure' the world of Bush,,,,,
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
So if these numbers are off the wall, what is your forecast?
How the heck do I know? That really depends on many things doesn't it?
20? 40? the world could end tomorrow for all we know,,,,, A brilliant mind could come up with the soultion for a low cost energy source which could be made here,,,,,
Many things can happen 'tomorrow' it's foolish to make guesses of what will happen,,,,,, you'll most likely be wrong
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
One party is more a slave to corporations?
I suppose you haven't noticed that many in the Democrat party have belonged to corporations, or have accepted money from them, as well as lining their pockets with military funds?
I supposed you've also missed the point that the Dems are Slaves to their own 'special' interests?
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
Democratic Party. Easy way to remember is that "Democrat" is a noun and "Democratic" is an adjective. You still remember the parts of speech, don't you, slater? ;-P
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
LOL yeah buddy your party is da bomb,,,,, the party of the people right
That's why Obama put his elisist foot in his big mouth?
The party against racism? Cough, both camps of your party has acted like the KK the last few months
FOr the country? That's why china has some key secrets thanks to your former golden child?
Yeah words mean things,,, but something the meanings change,,, I'm sure you can think of a few?
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nonparted2 months, 3 weeks ago
"One party is more a slave to corporate interests (as opposed to populist interests) than the other. If you fail to recognize that, you've got the kool ade in your veins."
kazak people that has ur state of mind need to get a grip on reality by making this statement above..
both political parties are slaves to corporate interestst as u say.
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
you see, that's the difference between you and me,,,,
LOL yeah your reality is differnt than mine. Do you think it would be the same? Heck your 'reality' is differnt from every person here and around the planet,,,,, your view is your view and mine is mine,,,,, if your 'reality' thinks it will take a 100 years to cure the ills of Bush who am I to challange that personal mindset,,,,,, Lest you could have done was to pcik a number that you may be still around to say you told us so.
In the end Diss, we all know what this and other claims is about,,, Bush is evil,, MCCain is Bush Jr.,, Vote for Obama and Change Halleluiah! You partisan? Nooooooooo!
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dissent2 months, 3 weeks ago
"The point is you guys pull these numbers out and throw them on the wall and dance around your hate Bush bonfire,,,,, so then I come in and make fun of your false pretense of knowing how long it will take to 'cure' the world of Bush,,,,,"
metA·phor
n.
1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in "a sea of troubles" or "All the world's a stage" Shakespeare.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/metaphor
100 years = a long time (metaphorically speaking)
.... man, these posts a pingponging all over the place!
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dissent2 months, 3 weeks ago
"In the end Diss, we all know what this and other claims is about,,, Bush is evil,, MCCain is Bush Jr.,, Vote for Obama and Change Halleluiah! You partisan? Nooooooooo!"
if these are my reasons to vote for obama i don't see how that makes me partisan. partisan means i would only vote for obama for no other reason than because he's the democrat nominee just as you would be partisan if you were to vote for mccain for no other reason than because he's republican.
i'll add to your point and say that this election is soooo critical that if obama gets to the white house there's hope for at least another generation or two on planet earth. if mccain gets there instead we can all stick our heads between our legs the day after tomorrow and kiss our asses goodbye. that's how important this is
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
Diss,,,, we are all fairly sure Obama will win, can we agree?
I just hope he can deliver what he's selling and your buying.
I mean come on your are saying that without Saint O there's NO hope for at least another generation or two on planet earth. if mccain gets there instead we can all stick our heads between our legs the day after tomorrow and kiss our asses goodbye. that's how important this is.
Do you read the things you post? Who really thinks the planet on the brink of destruction? Can I see a show of hands?
If Obama wins, the world survives if McCain does it's the end of mankind,, who hear actually buys this thinking?
You know, that's why it's so difficult to talk to you guys, you are more about negative emotion than anything,,,,,
I better vote for Obama I'd not want to be known as part of the reason humans won't survive to the next generation,,,, what life must be like to view it from such a pessimistic point of view.
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dissent2 months, 3 weeks ago
don't give me this crap. you have no problem with "negative thinking" when it's spewed by the bush propaganda smoke machine. do i really need to repeat it again and again? it looks like i do....
IMMINENT THREAT!!!
SADDAM'S PACKIN' WMDS AND HE AIMS TO USE 'EM!!!
MUSHROOM CLOUDS!!!
ISLAMOFASCISTS ARE COMING TO KILL AND EAT YOUR BABIES!!!
BOOGA BOOGA BOO BOO BOO!!!!!!
hmmm.... seems awfully "negative" to me. how about you slate? or is you memory now maxed out at highly selective? you and i and everyone in this world knows this admin has run on nothing but "negative thinking". it has had nothing positive to offer and it has left us with nothing but dead bodies and red ink. it was pure bs that started us on this highway to hell and took us into a situation where REAL people are dying, the rest of the world is REALLY turning against us and our economy is now REALLY imploding and now YOU criticize ME for "negative thinking"? give me a break.
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
LOL you are pretty much out there on this one I'd stop while I could if I were you. At no time in my life (except when Kennedy almost got us vaporized) did I hear any say it's the end of the world if a Dem gets elected and that we won't see another generation.
Mushroom clouds? YEah the Dems actually has a past of using that in TV adds huh?
Imminent threat? You've been keeping up with the foiled attempts of attacking us again no?
Saddam's Packing WMDs? Some very prominent Dems agreed before they disagreed with that.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/...
ISLAMOFASCISTS ARE COMING TO KILL AND EAT YOUR BABIES!!! Neva once have I heard this phrase? However, if I recall ISLAMOFASCISTS did kill 3,000 of us to get this all started. Have you forgotten?
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
We've said that yes we need to protect this country from someone that may want to attack us and kill as many as possible, but at no time can I recall the IT"S GONNA BE MAN'S DOOM if the other side wins.
The Dems that say the Republicans are Nazis, are going to starve your children, or make the elderly have to eat dog food. They say a Republican vote means one more burning cross in a yard, another man drug behind a truck. Yeah your side is soooooooooo high brow with your positive message.
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hamy2 months, 3 weeks ago
I don't think democrats are saints. I do think that Bush did such damage to our nation as to warrant a hyperbole.
And you are the one who is bringing party into this discussion. I never said anything about democrats or republicans. We talked about Bush and Cheney and their war on America.
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tanglang2 months, 3 weeks ago
NO they have not. Republicans have gone against President Bush on more than one occasion. I know it's been a whole year since the immigration bill, but you should at least remember it.
And Donald, referring torepublicans as the terrorist party is some panty waste bull sht. Yet we all expected you to say something stupid so we were not surprised.
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ADAGUY2 months, 3 weeks ago
"Fools like you dissent gleefully believe every bad prediction you hear"
Enlighten us Oh great one!
How long will it take to recover from this presidency?
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tanglang2 months, 3 weeks ago
D> None of the above. I work hard, everyday. I work with my hands doing what I love. And in the end it pays off. At the rate I'm going, I'll have my house paid off by the time I'm 35. Not bad for someone the dems say should need help to pay for health insurance.
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
"Let's say a billion years if we are going to pull a number out our azz to try and further vilify Bush."
--And yet you've accepted on blind faith every single estimate Bushco has asked you to swallow over the last 8 years (including predictions of how long our presence in Iraq should be and lowball numbers of people we've slaughtered there). Doesn't sound so ridiculous when the script is reversed, does it, Slater?
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
Who's protecting Bush? He and congress has damaged things over the last 8 years, I'm not sure if they did it on purpose as many want to claim,,,,, he and Cheney as with any president never do anything alone,,,,,, congress helps,,,,,,, yes even the supposed minority side of both houses are culpable.
But to say the damage will last 100 years is just pulling a good sounding (worse case) number out of the air to help the Democrat party further vilify this administration to gain power and turn our eyes away from the complicity of their own acts over time.
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
lol tangy, I've yet to meet a con on Propeller who says uttered a discouraging word about Bush beyond the usual superficial "yerp, Bush done wrong but..." And that includes you and slater. At most we hear "Bush is not perfect" or "Bush has made mistakes" blah blah blah...That's CRAP. Tens of thousands have DIED because of him and you people think squeaking out an occasional half-hearted remark like "everybody makes mistakes" qualifies as criticism. So prove me wrong, either one of you. Pull out ALL of the posts in which you acknowledge that Bush has screwed up (and I'm not talking about in some nebulous "nobody's perfect" half @ssed way"). If I'm so off target, put your money where you Bush-worshipping mouths are. I DARE you, tangy. ;-P
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tanglang2 months, 3 weeks ago
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/03/13/...
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/03/13/...
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/12/16/...
Meso, I spent all of five minutes finding these links. Perhaps you should get you some geritol old man as your memory is slipping. For me to pull out all of the posts I would be on here pasting links for the next five hours. And screw that. There is some cold beer waiting for me up the street.
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
--And in each one of those comments you failed to meet the terms of my challenge, Tangy. In the first, you said basically "I don't agree with Bush on illegal immigration. In the second, Bush isn't even mentioned (although you had plenty of venom towards "the illegals"). In the third you wish that "their family" (the Bush family) would "disappear" (that sent chills up my spine....whooo...lol), and in the last one you give Bush a grade of "F" on immigration. I'd give Hitler an "F" on human rights but that hardly counts as a meaningful criticism. You, I give a D-. Definitely needs improvement. Come back after that beer wears off.
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tanglang2 months, 3 weeks ago
"We have enough Gaurd troops to properly secure the border, *we just don't have any leaders* with a pair that will arm them so they can solve the problem."
That covers the President.
The conversation from the third one as that the Bushs, Kennedys and the Clintons all need to be run out of DC. They all need to retire never to be heard from again. That does not meet the terms of your challenge???
I'd swear it was YOU that's been doing the drinkin!
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Candida2 months, 3 weeks ago
jovial: "A pretty damning statement. Is this author off the mark, way far off, or somewhere in the middle?"
It's hard to tell without a crystal ball. Who knows, it may take only 99 years.
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dissent2 months, 3 weeks ago
maybe rummy can tells us, you know, 6 days, 6 weeks, i doubt 6 months. maybe dick can tell us, he's pretty sure about EVERYTHING (even if he is always wrong), maybe wolfowitz can tell us how iraqi oil will pay for it, or maybe condi can just make it all vanish in a puff of mushroom cloud. nah, i'm with you on this one, the cc computer has better odds
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KazamaSmokers2 months, 3 weeks ago
Cop out. Are you next going to claim that The Economist is biased?
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dissent2 months, 3 weeks ago
"Pssst,,,,, your side is making this 'claim' the balls in your court. Maybe you should consult the Oracle of Delphi, throw some 'bones' or let someone read some entrails?"
Psst.... those are 100 metaphorical years. writers like metaphors. it means, in literary terms, a vewy vewy loooong time. just like 6 days, 6 weeks, i doubt 6 months was supposed to mean a vewy vewy shooort time. only rumsfeld wasn't being metaphorical, and neither were the rest of them. i only wish they had been
btw, this is in response to slate
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slate2 months, 3 weeks ago
Hard numbers?
This is all conjecture, anyone that takes the 100 years as fact knows squat.
We recovered from a much worse time during the Depression. Who here is without work and home? Times are tough, but they were tough for me during Carter, Clinton and Reagan too, but I survived. This country will survive this too and sooner than you pessimists think. I have faith in this nation's people over the government.
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mark-stevens2 months, 3 weeks ago
BS... This country when the citizens want it, can recover from world wars and a depression in a very short time.
If we keep electing a goverment that keeps this country divided amd begging, we will be the next Mexico
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tanglang2 months, 3 weeks ago
And if we elect people who refuse to see that amnesty is a mistake (Obama) we really will be mexico.
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mesodude2 months, 3 weeks ago
When we have a draft and begin rationing and when those who cheerlead for the war are actually sacrificing (instead of sitting back with their yaps open waiting for their next tax cut), then we can talk about making comparisons between the illegal invasion of Iraq and those other conflicts. As it is, I imagine many of those who fought for us decades ago are turning over in their graves when they hear comments like yours.
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