NYT Limited Hangout on SERE Torture & U.S. Biological Warfare »
Posted by: Valtin 2 months agoThis story describes how a recent article in the New York Times, "China Inspired Interrogations at GuantÃ;¡namo" (7/2/08), which details the use of Albert Biderman's "Chart of Coercion" by SERE instructors at Guantanamo prison, uses only partial revelations and other forms of misinformation to distort th
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AnteUp2 months ago
Valtin ~
I cannot take the time to finish and/or study all this
info at present - but I will soon. Judging by your
historical references on some of the ugly stuff in our past
- I would lay odds you are quite familiar with author
Jonathan Kwitny's work. When I find myself feeling too happy
- I can always get a reality check by reading one of his
books.
Cannot wait to retake the computer and study on -
thanks for the piece, Valtin.
And many thanks for the heads-up, Tehranchik.
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gamahuche2 months ago
FTA
The New York Times article, China Inspired Interrogations at Guantánamo, is a sophisticated use of journalism in the service of propaganda. While it attaches the recent use of torture and coercive methods of interrogation by the United States to some of its origins in the study of communist methods of interrogation, it does so in a one-sided way. It attributes methods of detention and treatment of prisoners that was not unique to China. If anything, the U.S. model of psychological torture is probably closer to that used by the Soviet secret police. In any case, this type of torture was not developed by the communists, but had its origins in the police procedures of autocratic governments, not least that of Czarist Russia
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gamahuche2 months ago
I'm more familiar with the Soviet model of reprogramming than the others but fortunately was never on the receiving end of the treatment though I knew many who were.
When you have as a "playing field" not only your establishments for persuasion but also a cultural context which is also almost totally controlled, with virtually nowhere to escape to it does give almost total power to the "manipulators".
In the Czech lands there were the uranium mines as a back-up.
Being sent to work in the uranium mines was a slow-death sentence and to this day there are people who are still being punished on a daily basis by their struggle to survive, while suffering permanently with horrible chronic symptoms.
It seems rhat if you can create a situation where guaranteed permanent damage is the lowest common denominator of the exercise the additional persuasive techniques are merely the icing on a macabre cake.
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RickyDawkins2 months ago
Hitchens gives waterboarding a try:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/vid...
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/127312.html
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flyonthewallzz2 months ago
Nuts!!
This sounds like a story I would love to sink my teeth into.
Unfortunatly it is time for me to head home and the next few days I will be working in the field away from this silly idiot box.
Ricky: I can not believe I will miss seeing Hitchens getting waterboarded.
If there is a God it seems he is not just.
If I respond more it means I was a bad boy and took a laptop home with me and played when I should be sleeping.
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CHAM2 months ago
Interesting Valtin, but why do I read word after word about torture, story after story about sleep deprivation, lights on all the time, loud noises, etc, etc., but you really have to look to find someone talking about people tortured to death. And I have found over a 100 documented cases of it.
However in this peice, I think I see a mode of remaking torture into something scary but not brutal. This is the theme of this story. Talk about torture to soften the impact of the real story.
When people are tortured to death, whoever was doing the torture is guilty of murder, and the directing force , no matter how high it goes is guilty of murder by accomplice.
The United States cannot be on High Moral ground when they torture human beings.
I think America sold their soul when they accepted torture as AOK in the war on terror.
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Valtin2 months ago
You're right about the deaths. Steven Miles wrote about it. I have too, but obviously not often enough. The torture involved here isn't "not brutal". It's very damaging. PHR has a publication documenting how damaging it can be: http://brokenlives.info/
I wrote last April http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/18-usc-...
... no matter how Congress or the administration try to slice and dice it, their torture activities have resulted in dead bodies, and no amount of legislation can wash that blood away.
...44 US military autopsy reports on the ACLU website -evidence of extensive abuse of US detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan 2002 through 2004. Anthony Romero, Executive Director of ACLU stated, "There is no question that US interrogations have resulted in deaths." ACLU attorney Amrit Sing adds, "These documents present irrefutable evidence that US operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogations."
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Valtin
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